Bonhams Auction Super Ace 'KVF + Spitfire Vb rep "W3850"

I understand completely, I am quite amazed it raised 75K, it must be very frustrating for the people that built it.

To some extent I can understand their position from a purely commercial point of view. Hauling a Spitfire around is an expensive proposition and very hard work. You cannot just rely on volunteers. I need two trained staff to set mine up, they have to paid wages if you want them to turn up reliably. They have to be fed and watered as well as accommodated. On top of that I need two vehicles, a lorry and a 4X4 these both have to be taxed, insured and maintained. Then you have fuel costs. Inevitably things get broken and need repair. In my case I also have to carry out regular maintenance on the engine and moving parts. There is very little profit if any, the first season we made a huge loss.
This does not even start to cover the cost of building the thing in the first place.
The fees charged will just about cover running costs as long as you don’t get any major break downs how ever this can quickly evaporate.
In the case of an organisation like the RBL I would doubt the Spitfire would raise much revenue after expenses.
Displaying a Spitfire is not a commercial proposition its more about having the interest and enjoying the events you attend.
Saying that I fully understand the feelings of the volunteers that built the Spitfire clearly more research should have been done on the revenue position before committing its members to thousands of hours of hard work.

sorry Graham but you are miles away the project NEVER made a loss and was in profit from the start and at every event.The build costs came from donations specificaly made by companies and individuals.The custom transporter trailer was also donated as was the towing vechicle donated by a major company.The only cost was fuel and this was covered by donations from the organisations who wanted the aircraft at their events.

The aircraft was as stated many times before considered by the RBL to be not modern enough !!!.And they had voiced the opinion that perhaps a Harrier would be more appropriate.Rather ironic when you consider what has happened to the Harrier that is by the way over 45 years old.

And it still realised them circa £75,000 pre auction for an outlay from the legion funds of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. not bad income when you can get it dont spend any money let volunteers and companies donate all the money and effort to build then sell it and keep the money and not even give it to the branch that started the project and guided the build for the benifit of all.

A very sad event still makes people get upset ,a lot of veterens and others let down and disappointed in the anniversary year all for the sake of £75k ???.

Mike E

Oh, I’d think that it must have been an encounter between an Auster and a Broussard behind the erecting shed. Otherwise, if sired by an Auster it never would have found a beer crate, large enough to stand on, to enable it to cover a B-24 dam and, if round the other way, the Auster would have been reminiscent of G-BCOH after the Woodford hangar collapse!

The poor old Super Ace doesn’t seem to be getting a look in here now. C’est triste!

I once heard the poor Super Ace described as “the result of an unfortunate liaison between an Auster and a B-24”

Cruel, but……. :diablo:

Was ‘KVF the aeroplane that shed its propeller on a delivery flight to a new owner a few years ago?

I think you will find it is often ‘on loan’

To some extent I can understand their position from a purely commercial point of view. Hauling a Spitfire around is an expensive proposition and very hard work. You cannot just rely on volunteers. I need two trained staff to set mine up, they have to paid wages if you want them to turn up reliably. They have to be fed and watered as well as accommodated. On top of that I need two vehicles, a lorry and a 4X4 these both have to be taxed, insured and maintained. Then you have fuel costs. Inevitably things get broken and need repair. In my case I also have to carry out regular maintenance on the engine and moving parts. There is very little profit if any, the first season we made a huge loss.
This does not even start to cover the cost of building the thing in the first place.
The fees charged will just about cover running costs as long as you don’t get any major break downs how ever this can quickly evaporate.
In the case of an organisation like the RBL I would doubt the Spitfire would raise much revenue after expenses.
Displaying a Spitfire is not a commercial proposition its more about having the interest and enjoying the events you attend.
Saying that I fully understand the feelings of the volunteers that built the Spitfire clearly more research should have been done on the revenue position before committing its members to thousands of hours of hard work.

The poor old Super Ace doesn’t seem to be getting a look in here now. C’est triste!

The RBL television campaign is typical of the sort of thing that makes me uncomfortable about giving to many of the large well known charities.
Most of them have been invaded by financial directors with big ideas and big budgets to match to fund television advertising and professional fund raisers who are often paid a commission for each person they persuade to sign up to a monthly donation and other big buck ideas.
I think it was the Daily Mail that recently claimed that if you sign up to donate a fiver a month (think it was a fiver – may have been more) to a charity which uses professional fund raisers then your first 12 monthly donations merely fund the commission paid to the fund raiser.
I presume the premise is that professional people raise more funds than volunteers did but the other side of the coin is that their wages siphons off a lot of the extra income so at the end of the day are the charities really getting a great deal more money to benefit their cause.
My aunt has raised money for a prominent national charity for 40+ years by working on stalls at public events as a volunteer. About 10 years ago the management appointed a new director with a background in the financial sector to oversee fund raising. In addition to stock supplied from the central charity source they used to sell locally donated new items and things like knitted items made by some of the volunteers at no cost to the charity. First thing the new regime did was ban the sale of anything not supplied from central stocks as the sale of donated items messed up their accounting procedures. They never could explain exactly how this new ruling benefitted the charity.
I know from experience of dealing with banks that the concept of getting something for free and selling it for a profit or doing a few hours of your work to benefit another person and them returning the favour is frowned upon because it can’t be recorded in black and white on a profit and loss account.

Unless I’ve misread the press release, to which there is a hyperlink in post #11, it is not being said that the purchaser of the replica Spitfire is allowing the Legion the use thereof other than for two specified events. So, when these have taken place, presumably the replica will not move out of the purchaser’s private collection and the Legion will have no more connection with it. Anyhow, hopefully the sale proceeds will contribute towards the Legion’s present television commercial campaign. I wonder what that’s costing and what benefit it is anticipated will accrue to the Legion therefrom?

I understood that the RBL wanted rid of it partly because they felt it wasn’t generating enough funds relative to the annual costs of maintaining and moving the replica and wasn’t there also some statement about the Spitfire no longer reflecting the RBL aims as they wanted to move on from WW2.
In view of the this it would be extremely hypocritical of the RBL management to now want to borrow the replica back for fund raising activities.
Seems to me that a lot of people put a great deal of work into this and in return got treated very badly.

The Spitfire has been bought by Mr. M. Oliver of Knutsford, local businessman and engineer. It is a philanthropic act swelling the British Legion coffers and still giving them access to the ‘plane for fundraising events. We should celebrate such useful acts and feel relieved it is not a real aircraft that could have an accident as it is moved around the country but still give the feel of the Few’s aircraft to the Many..well done sir!
link to details here:
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us/media-centre/news/general/legion-replica-spitfire-sold-by-bonhams-ahead-of-auction

What a load of Bull fertilizer

sorry but having been the main engineer building the aircraft and having to deal with the shoddy way the RBL dealt with everyone the articles are just window dressing even the Ripon Branch got ripped off by the RBL and its members mistreated.

So many events and veterans let down by this organisation no wonder people are turning away and supporting the likes of Help for Heroes.The RBL fro the whim of one individual mothballed the project in November 2009 and anyone connected with it was accused of all sorts of things NONE of them true and all withdrawn.The aircraft had so many bookings to support veterans and events in 2010 for the anniversary of the B of B but the RBL would consider none of them.

The aircraft is now in Mr Olivers private museum for a sum in excess of the guide and will very unlikely venture out much for the benefit of others.

Sorry Mr Moderators but this project and the RBL has left a very bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.The aircraftwas supposed to promote the RBL but the RBL would not let it and even refused to promote to other branches around the UK for their veterans events.Facts !!!!!!.

Even the poor Ripon Branch has been very badly treated and let down and they have had to fight tooth and nail to even get back the monies they raised specificaly for the project from local business etc.So they can put it back into supporting the community and veterans in North Yorkshire.

More information here:
http://www.valves.co.uk/files/cheshire-life-may-2010.pdf

He also has quite a collection of aero-engines including 3 Merlins, Griffon, Hercules and Sabre.

Pete

W3850 finds home in Knutsford

The Spitfire has been bought by Mr. M. Oliver of Knutsford, local businessman and engineer. It is a philanthropic act swelling the British Legion coffers and still giving them access to the ‘plane for fundraising events. We should celebrate such useful acts and feel relieved it is not a real aircraft that could have an accident as it is moved around the country but still give the feel of the Few’s aircraft to the Many..well done sir!
link to details here:
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us/media-centre/news/general/legion-replica-spitfire-sold-by-bonhams-ahead-of-auction