An inbound transatlantic BA flight has diverted into Cardiff following the appearance of smoke in the cockpit. Remarkbly the flight is carrying just two passengers.
By: galdri - 30th December 2005 at 22:20
So, what are the requirements for an aircraft having a lot of seats and exits but no passengers at all – like a ferry/repositioning flight?
Simple really. A ferry flight is a nonrevenue flight, so, no C/A are needed. C/A are only needed for revenue (commercial) flights. Nonrevenue flights would be flights like ferry, training etc.
By: chornedsnorkack - 30th December 2005 at 10:56
No passengers?
So, what are the requirements for an aircraft having a lot of seats and exits but no passengers at all – like a ferry/repositioning flight?
There are at a minimum 2 humans aboard (the 2 pilots) who need to evacuate the plane. Does a plane on a ferry flight also have to carry the full complement of flight attendants watching all exits so the pilots can choose from all of them when evacuating?
By: Ren Frew - 30th December 2005 at 10:46
That certainly explains things, cheers. 😀
By: galdri - 29th December 2005 at 21:35
Well it’s down to the size of the machine really. It is all done by counting passenger seats (not the actual number of passengers on board). For the first 19 seats, you do not need a cabin attendant. That’s why smaller commuters only have 19 seats as a rule 😉 That’s so they don’t have to pay the C/A 😀 . As soon as you hit 20 pax seats, you need a C/A. And after that, you need one C/A for every started 50 seats. So as soon as you have 51 seats, you need 2 C/A etc.
That’s why, on the 737-400 in a 170Y layout, you will need 4 C/A to be legal, even though you could possibly have as many as 200 pax for the same amount of C/A. These are the legal requirements, but some airlines have MORE C/A on board just to provide an extra service. Exel will, for example, not fly with less than 5 C/A on the 737-400.
On the other hand it is possible to dispatch with fewer C/A than the legal minimum to cover for unforseen instances. For that you need a specific proceedures approved by the local CAA. The unforseen instances are all listed down in the approval form, and usually stipulate that the flight is at an out station were a C/A has become incapcitated, or otherwise unavailable for duty. A flight should not (in my companies case) depart homebase with less than the legal minimum, however, it is possible to limp home with less than the legal minimum. The procedures for dispatch with a missing C/A are a bit complicated, but might involve offloading of passengers and/or relocation within the cabin.
By: Ren Frew - 29th December 2005 at 12:15
Off duty crew on discounted tickets are counted as passengers. Their appearance on the load sheet is different as they are shown as PAD’s (passengers available for disembarkation) but they are still passengers. As such the cabin crew need to be available to operate the safety equipment and doors, which in this case seems as if it could have been quite important.
OK, so is there a specific level of crewing applied per passenger or does it come down to the size of the aircraft ?
By: Hugh Jarse - 29th December 2005 at 10:21
Off duty crew on discounted tickets are counted as passengers. Their appearance on the load sheet is different as they are shown as PAD’s (passengers available for disembarkation) but they are still passengers. As such the cabin crew need to be available to operate the safety equipment and doors, which in this case seems as if it could have been quite important.
By: Ren Frew - 29th December 2005 at 00:10
So the 2 passengers were off duty company employees.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1856398,00.html
Would One Left care to comment..? Why would 2 off duty employees be considered pax and the other 17 considered crew ?
Ok, the flight crew would be on duty and therefore active “crew” but why the cabin crew as well. Is it a legal obligation, a working hours directive thing… something else ?
Yes it was scheduled to be a legitimate flight anyway, albeit delayed. Wouldn’t the cabin crew get “clocked off” under these circumstances or are we just referring to them as crew for accounting purposes ?
By: G-CDFF - 28th December 2005 at 17:30
According to BA site BA176 from JFK – LHR now cancelled, stating its landing time at Cardiff. Earlier it was just delayed.
Also flight now been taken off LHR arrivals board, where again earlier it was just delayed.
Obviously Road transport all way bk.
2/3 Taxi’s and a motorbike should fit them all!!
The other pax were put on other flights as it was delayed.
BA seem to have smoke machines installed in their cabin. Maybe the crew are having a disco up there! Or their crew are just from Cardiff 😀
lol! 😀
By: Bmused55 - 28th December 2005 at 16:50
run around naked in the cabin, woohoo.
whatever takes your fancy. LOL
By: bmi-star - 28th December 2005 at 16:19
Well if it was really just a two pax head count, I’d have loved to be on that flight, diversion and all
Me two Sandy!
By: DME - 28th December 2005 at 16:11
run around naked in the cabin, woohoo.
By: Bmused55 - 28th December 2005 at 15:56
Well if it was really just a two pax head count, I’d have loved to be on that flight, diversion and all
By: bmi-star - 28th December 2005 at 15:50
Wow, if it was only two, i hope they moved them to FIRST!
By: LBARULES - 28th December 2005 at 15:39
Thats a joke, right?
EDIT – Ah, notice you have edited to include smileys, thought you were been serious for a minute!
By: adamdowley - 28th December 2005 at 15:35
Perhaps it was one of the pilots smoking? Perhaps he wanted cigarette to relax himself once he realised that after carrying just two passengers, the airline was going to collapse and he would lose his job. 😀 :p :p 😀
By: caaardiff - 28th December 2005 at 15:26
According to BA site BA176 from JFK – LHR now cancelled, stating its landing time at Cardiff. Earlier it was just delayed.
Also flight now been taken off LHR arrivals board, where again earlier it was just delayed.
Obviously Road transport all way bk.
2/3 Taxi’s and a motorbike should fit them all!!
By: caaardiff - 28th December 2005 at 15:18
Yes BA Cardiff is regularly used for the 747’s.
I work at the airport and wondered what the diversion was for. Just thought it was weather down south-east. Obviously not.
the plane may have been instructed by BA management to divert to Cardiff to save a later ferry flight back their for routine maintenance (shove the crew and passengers into taxis up to Heathrow!)
Fair comment, as alot of 747’s have been passing through lately.
http://www.newswales.co.uk/?section=Transport&F=1&id=6774
A post from last yr
BA seem to have smoke machines installed in their cabin. Maybe the crew are having a disco up there! Or their crew are just from Cardiff 😀
By: Ren Frew - 28th December 2005 at 15:13
Perhaps some of our Cardiff friends could find out if it’s still there and “in maintenance” ?
By: bobleeds - 28th December 2005 at 14:56
Only 2 passengers?!! I hope they’d had the goodwill to upgrade them into first class for the journey (save on heating the economy cabin)!
The old cynic in me is thinking that due to the poor loading, the plane may have been instructed by BA management to divert to Cardiff to save a later ferry flight back their for routine maintenance (shove the crew and passengers into taxis up to Heathrow!) – do BA still use Cardiff for 747 maintenance??
By: Ren Frew - 28th December 2005 at 14:17
Just 2 pax!!! Thats gotta be a typo.
I guess that’s one of the peculiarities of festive time travel. One assumes the plane was reasonably full on the way out and was in effect returning empty to base with the addition of a couple of last minute “passengers”?
Could have been wives/husbands/friends of the crew gone out on a staff discount for some New York christmas shopping I suppose ?
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December 28, 2005 at 2:05 pm