Brewster Buffalo Picture

Point is, there’s something closer to a Brewster than a very close thing, often overlooked in Finland, and there’s a ‘unique’ Brewster Buffalo in the USA.

Didn’t the Finns do something like a copy of a Hurricane too? Thats still not going to be a Hurricane, though.
Crazymainer, all navy-style aircraft produced for, but not used by, the US Navy had a Bu number allocated. This cuts out all those Grumman Marlet/Wildcat types (I don’t have my references with me) produced for France, Greece, and the very early British ones, but I think that some of the Buffalos handed on to Britain (although I stand to be corrected) did have them, although whether those allocated to the Dutch, the Belgians, and those passed on to the Australians (I think) did or not I don’t know (as in can’t remember): for some reason I think most of them did, since the US Navy decided they were suitable for passing on to desperate nations eager for something that had guns and could fly. – Nermal

“Villiard’s search first took him to Malaysia, where a Royal Australian Air Force Buffalo had been bulldozed into the ground when a palm oil plantation was established at its crash site, but he was denied permission to dig it up.”

Does this mean it is still there??

See here as well:

http://www.airpirates.com/gallery/Malaysia

At least I have a bit more info about the air pirates expedition results now as the info is a bit sparce!

More Do24s flown in the Pacific zone by the RAAF than any other Allied power??????????????? Check your facts, Oscar.
The MLD in the Netherlands Indies received 37 Do24s in total, from Dornier and Aviolanda. These were used by the MLD exclusively until the fall of Java, the survivors going to Australia, where they were later transferred to the RAAF. The RAAF did not receive more than 37 Do24s from the MLD! I am not sure of the exact number, but certainly it was less than 10, probably no more than 6. The only other possible source of Do24s would have been Germany- highly unlikely since Germany and Australia were at war!

More D0-24’s were flown in the Pacific combat zone by the RAAF than any other Allied power. Painting aircraft is a real issue generally in the mind of the non-owners. Should the BoBMF paint all of their aircraft in a one time original livery for each indivual aircraft or as they have done as respresntitive of these great machines. I vote for the latter.

Ok Guys,

Like I said since I broke this story and have been talking with the powers to be at Pensacola.

Here is what I’m willing to say, since I’m writing a story about this aircraft and the other Brewester Build aircraft.

One the Deal isn’t quite done yet, still has to get The Naval History Centers approval. Now for the plane its self it will be returned to the Storage build along with the Lake Mich. TBM,FM-2 ect.

As for the what it will be mark as they still don’t have a space to put it into the restoration center. So please quite trying to quess what they are going to paint it up as. Oh by the way this plane does have a US Navy Bu# so anoth on that subject.

Now for the photo at the beginning of these thread when I informed the guys at Pensacola about the photo they were’nt to please, you see all of the photo guys were instructed they could take photos but intill the deal was complete they were BARRED FROM POSTING,PUBLISHING the photos. They all signed a piece of paper stating this.

Aero51 has told me that its from another board that has been inform by me that they are in violation of a direct US Navy request and don’t be suprise if someone from the US Navy comes knocking. As for this board I was told by my contacts that they are’nt going to come knocking.

So please do me a big favor and be happy that the plane is somewhere it can be put on display and let me get the hold story done.

Cheers Crazymainer

The report linked to by Mark12 says the aircraft will remain “as recovered”. I assume that means it will not be refurbished? Certainly won’t be repainted with Stars and Bars if it is not to be restored at all!

Hi Folks,

I guess you can take from these (correct) statements what you want.

Point is, there’s something closer to a Brewster than a very close thing, often overlooked in Finland, and there’s a ‘unique’ Brewster Buffalo in the USA.

Missing out either is missing something important.

OK, Grendel; what’s the full info on the Finnish Buffalo ‘copy’ ;). (Just teasing!) By the way; I’m here for the learning and sharing of info, not points out of ten or scored.

Thanks for the link Mark12. Kind of what I’d expect and hope for.

Cheers

The Do 24 was developed by Dornier specifically for the Dutch Navy, so the type has a connection with my country in more ways than one- it was also licence-built by Aviolanda in Papendrecht.
Building several flyable Brewsters would be a great idea- no doubt the RAF museum would be interested, as well as the Air Force Museum here in Holland. But I doubt whether this will actually happen.

Perhaps a photo or two!! On the ball as always JDK…10/10!

0/10.

That plane is still VL Humu, designed and built by Finnish State Aircraft Factory, not a Brewster. Yes, it resembles Brewster but that’s artificial, it is a different airplane.

According to this report..

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/9434527.htm

…the aircraft will remain in the markings ‘as recovered’.

Mark

Sigh…

So Brewster F2A Buffalo HM-671 on display in the Aviation Museum of Central Finland is a figment of my overheated imagination? (OK, strkly speeking, its a development of the Buffalo, but…) And it’s in Finnish markings. What else do we want?

The perapatetic machine, is, indeed, ultra rare, but NOT unique.

Cheers!

Perhaps a photo or two!! On the ball as always JDK…10/10!

A few weeks ago I posted a message where I suggested that RARE planes should be displayed where they’s be most appreciated. I was soundly criticized and ridiculed by many people who NOW say the Buffalo should go to Finland. I won’t mention any names, but most of the comments came from the Southern Hemisphere concered that their warbirds would go to the US or UK.

Which is why, John, the argument of where what should be is always, ultimately pointless and devisive. I don’t mind where stuff is, as long as it’s looked after. Displayed, cared for, flown or protected as appropriate are bonuses. However, there is a different issue about painting aircraft in ‘typical’ rather than ‘original’ colours. The RAAF Seagull V at the RAF Museum is in it’s own colours, rather than in the colours of an RAF Walrus it’s ‘depicting’ in thaty gallery.

The ex-Spanish Dornier Do24 which belongs to the RAF Museum (Britain) is on loan to Holland, who have restored it splendidly to Dutch East Indies colours. Frankly, those colours in that country make the most sense of a type whose history is important, but whose individual a/c has an unimportant history of it’s own.

The Buffalo is different, however. In the hands of EVERYONE but the the Finns it was a disaster; only the Finns made a success of it. That actual airframe is an ‘ace’ airmrame in those hands. A National standard museum has an obligation to acurate preservation of an artifact, including it’s own livery – it’s an agreed international museum expectation, though not always supported! In short, it’s in good hands. That’s great. It’s in the USA, which is also great, but i’m not a Finn, so I defer! In my opinion, it should go back into its own colours, not the colours of the US whith whom it did not serve and is not a ‘milestone’ type and removes its true, remarkable and important history.

Good to debate these things though!

NOW you agree with me…

The Buff belongs in Finland, damn shame it has ended up in the hands of the U.S. Navy museum :((((.
Wonder where those remains of three Buffs are- does anybody know?

A few weeks ago I posted a message where I suggested that RARE planes should be displayed where they’s be most appreciated.
I was soundly criticized and ridiculed by many people who NOW say the Buffalo should go to Finland. I won’t mention any names, but most of the comments came from the Southern Hemisphere concered that their warbirds would go to the US or UK.

I think a Buffalo should be in Finland, based on its operational histoy, but since a poster said this plane was originally US property (not a export example) and (if I’m not mistaken) the Buffalo did have some U.S. combat history in the Pacific…the plane does have a rightful place in the Naval Aviation Museum…it’s a first rate operation so it will have a good home.

That is the most important after all. I hope they take good care of this machine, wherever she will go.
(I do prefer the finnish markings, but a secure future for this aircraft is much more important)

Agreed, it’s better to be anywhere in a serious museum than rusting away without proper care.

But aviation museums should be about aviation history. That’s why I would be appalled if BW-372 was painted to any other livery than what it wore in combat service.

Painting BW-372 in USN colors would require also removing the Finnish gun system and metric instrument panel along with any other Finnish mods such as Nokia tires (?) There wouldn’t be much left of FAF’s BW-372 after that!

BW-372 has no combat service history with USN, but a very fine record indeed in FAF, including eight aerial victories duly painted on its rudder. Historically, the only proper way to treat BW-372 would be to restore it in the setup and colors of its last flight, all the way down to the victory markings. And even that should be done with great care to save as much of the original paint and war-weary look as possible.

True history is what museums are about… not patriotic pretty pictures of planes that never saw combat in those colors to begin with.

the Finnish Brewster; an idea…

All–

I too would rather have seen the B239 go into a Finnish museum, but better she be conserved/restored in Florida than be allowed to deteriorate after so remarkable a survival. And she’ll have a good (and high-profile) home at Pensacola, seen and appreciated by thousands of enthusiasts.

My idea? Take a leaf from the Navy’s own book…and while the Brewster is being disassembled and restored, a la the USN’s (NAS Willow Grove) Me262, source the data to “run off a few copies”. That way, Brewsters could go not only to Pensacola (static), but also to Finland (a static and a flyer?), to the USMC museum (who have wanted one forever), and to a private collector or two in the US, UK, or (what the heck) here in Canada (I can think of at least one collector here for whom a Finnish B239 would be a logical addition)…What does everyone think, and given the success of the Me262 restoration and re-creations, could the idea get the Navy’s blessing?

S.

Also I must agree that it is better to have it restored in any markings than have it rot away in some obscure place.

That is the most important after all. I hope they take good care of this machine, wherever she will go.
(I do prefer the finnish markings, but a secure future for this aircraft is much more important)

PS: a article can be found in the Flypast of march 1999 (page 9) with some history and recovery of this machine.

Greets,
J.V.

It would be really shame if the plane is restored to American markings. The Brewster was never successfully used by the US Air Forces or Navy and they never operated the model 239 in combat.

This very plane has a well known combat history, it has 8 Soviet planes on its credit and lt. Pekuri, a Finnish ace, shot down two Soviet Hurricanes with it in the last combat. After ditching behind enemy lines he walked 20 kilometers to the front lines before being rescued.

More about BW-372:

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/BW-372.htm

BW-372

It looks in remarkably good nick, should look good when restored.

Rob

No, it looked good when it was hauled out all those years ago. Wasn’t there somethng here about it being kept in a rusty ISO container at Shannon Airport, Ireland, for several years after ‘rescue’? – Nermal

The Buff belongs in Finland, damn shame it has ended up in the hands of the U.S. Navy museum :((((.
Wonder where those remains of three Buffs are- does anybody know?

Saying the Buffalo shouldn’t stay in Finland is like saying the sole surviving Supermarine Seagull shouldn’t stay in Australia. Or the sole surviving Tempest prototype shouldn’t stay in Britain! Ridiculous!