Been trawling through a box of documents left me by a friend that included a refrence too Bristol aircrafts frist ventures into supersonic flight desgined for Mach 3 but restricted too mach 1.8 due too underpowered engines, included a rather grainy shot of one, anybody know anything more on these stainless steel bodkins.
By: RPSmith - 15th January 2007 at 13:19
Midland Air Musium has an aileron I think, or could be a wing panel.
I’m sure it’s a control surface – aileron or elevator. It’s there because of link with AWA mentioned by alertken in post 3 – I presume it’s off the one that went to Shoeburyness.
Roger Smith.
By: Vega ECM - 15th January 2007 at 06:47
“designed for Mach 3 but restricted too mach 1.8 due too underpowered engines”
With the greatest of respect it was not underpowered engines that were the problem, 3 other things;-
-The first was mass growth of the Airframe due to the fact that the Stainless Steel just could not be made to give a weight effective solution. IIRC the original design target MTOW 35Klbs, actual FF MTOW 42Klbs.
– secondly the engine fuel consumption was too high as a result of the Gyron engine development being halted too early in design cycle.
– Thirdly the air intake control system was rather immature (similar to the early SR71 flying experience)
So the total fuel quantity was restricted by the max take off weight restriction and once in flight the fuel was used too quickly (technically the T188 was in fuel emergency very shortly after take off), and surges resulting from intake curtailed any attempts to get above 1.8 mach.
Proposals were made to overcome these problems by installing Air to Air refueling, and/or different engines. Proposals were also made for a strategic recon version and an Iranian sponsored fighter development.
Also the T188 orignal design objective was a max speed of 2.8 Mach (sustained for just 6 minutes) .
By: Scouse - 14th January 2007 at 17:16
There’s a complete one at Cosford, which I suspect is the location of F MK6 JOHN’s photograph.
http://navigator.rafmuseum.org/results.do?view=detail&db=object&pageSize=1&id=18733
William
Amendment: just spotted that Alert Ken had made the same point. Whoops!
By: FMK.6JOHN - 14th January 2007 at 16:32
Midland Air Musium has an aileron I think, or could be a wing panel.
Here is ‘the office’.
Regards,
John.
By: old eagle - 14th January 2007 at 16:23
Pic owner not known
By: alertken - 14th January 2007 at 12:03
1952. RAE’s perception of Mach 3/>55,000ft. cruise was a Meteor-like layout in stainless steel. Avro 730 won a recce OR. RAE saw a need for a proof vehicle, both for flight and for metallurgy. Bristol won the air vehicle (iron maiden plus 5), to be assisted in fabrication by AWA. (?IIRC) Daniel Doncaster was awarded metalwork. Only suitable engine seen as DH PS.50 Gyron Jr. Time effluxed.
Avro 730 enhanced as bomber/recce., then cancelled as altitude was unhealthy after Guideline SAM was revealed. D.D. disinterested in an order for (by now 1 static plus 2); continued on MoS’ Aircraft Research budget. Time effluxed. DH taken over by BSEL, no other application for Gyron Jr. than 20 DB/40 deliverable Buccaneer S.1. Bristol merge into BAC. Time…on an overhead-soak milchcow.
Flew in 1962, second 1963, max. attained speed was 1.88M. Any value lay in pointing UK to 2.2M and alloy for the SST. US ignored all this and derided our amateur fabricants. They attempted B-70 and Boeing 2707, before learning on SR-71 that exotic material can be forged…slowly, painfully, expensively. 1 T.188 splintered at Shoeburyness, other is in Cosford Mus.
By: Bager1968 - 14th January 2007 at 06:46
According to the 1963-64 Jane’s Aircraft engine section, the engines were:
“a later and more powerful variant of the de Havilland Gyron Junior series, the DGJ.10”, which was
“first run on October 1, 1957”,
“incorporated many design changes”, and was
“designed from the start to employ reheat, and a high-performance afterburner operating at 2,000° K combustion temperature, and giving a 40% static thrust boost has been developed along with the engine.
This combination of engine and reheat system was first flight tested in a modified Javelin fighter on January 31, 1961.”
Specifications are:
“high flight Mach number engine rated at 10,000 lb. (4,540 kg) s.t. dry, 14,000 lb. (6,350 kg) s.t. with reheat at sea level and over 20,000 lb (9,080 kg) s.t. with reheat at speeds in excess of Mach 2.5 at 36,000′ (11,000 m.).
Diameter over compressor and turbine: 32.3″ (82 cm)
Overall diameter over afterburner: 36″ (91.4 cm)
Length from compressor inlet to exhaust flange: 70.0″ (177.8 cm)
Length from compressor inlet to afterburner exit: 191.0″ (485.1 cm)
Weight: classified
Fuel consumption: classified”
I guess they didn’t get that extra “high/fast” boost they planned on, then?
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January 14, 2007 at 2:17 am