British Airways Advert

Compared to the fun adverts… ANZ put out…

Ah yes… they had ‘nothing to hide’. 🙂

Re-the BA advert, I think it’s a very pleasant and fresh approach to advertising, even though it wouldn’t entice me to use their services quite simply because they don’t meet my particular routing needs.

The 747 being painted in the video earlier, is that one of the new (wet lease) 747-8 (will these appear in BA colours even?), or was it simply a 747-4 with the windows covered for painting?

Cloud 9
The facts are Clear BA has Turned a loss into Profit and Paid its staff a bonus even those who chose to strike.

Virgin Has taken a “PROFIT” (if you can call it that) and turned it into a loss and I bet the their staff wont be seeing a bonus this Year But I expect their senior managers will

It nice to see you post that you accept BA has suffered due to the tough economical times I think that’s a First :rolleyes:

One airline leading, another trying to following in the Shadows of the big boys

In the best possible taste

In the best possible taste – as Kenny E. Would say rapidly crossing his legs:eek:

Please be patient and don’t take my head off before reading and appreciating carefully.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Please stop jumping up and down like a ‘greedy’ trader about profit. I don’t care as it is no judge of a company (whether it be Virgin, BA, Boeing, Airbus , Rolls Royce or a Dell Boy Trotter).:eek:

What is “Profit” – a declaration in “The Income Statement” formerly known as the “Profit and Loss”, at an electronic instant in time of the Income minus the Outgoings. One electronic instant it could be sky high (no pun Pete) and the next it could be showing 0 or minus figure having swallowed up the company overdraft.

Well the new breed of accounting graduates are riding shiny new chargers which state in the code of ethics that adherence to pure Profit as a yardstick is a “dead duck”.:eek:

Therefore accuracy in the “Income Statement” is paramount and must be verifiable.:)

More interestingly is the close scrutiny of the “Balance Sheet” – tangible and intangible assets of the company (e.g. the recently government controlled and funded banks, had virtual assets, or zero value assets in the sub prime scandals. “Where is the property that this 3 times around mortgage is secured with?” “I think it blew down a few days ago or there’s the pin on the map where it’s supposed to have been.”) – when and how were the assets valued?
🙂
Of paramount importance is the “Cash Flow Statement” – how does the company manage it’s money from day to day. Too big a balance is as serious as too little a balance to pay the bills.:)

Of further interest to us new ‘bean counters’ is the harmonising in the developed world of IFRS accounting standards (not Tax) and the sorry tale is that the USA have asked for a further extension at least up to 2017 before they move to harmonise their accounting standards. US works on a rules based system (easy to tick boxes and sweet talk auditors) and in contrast IFRS is all about Good Governance and being principles based.

The delay:diablo: in legislation being passed to “Ring Fence” banking operations from riskay horse trading with banking customers’ (as opposed to gamblers’) money is not going to stop ethical accountants reporting in special notes to the accounts on any ‘shady situations’ to the audit committee (usually composed of non executive directors of the company whose remit is to keep a ‘beedy’ eye on whether good governance prevails and to monitor internal audit and take heed of all external audit observations and critiques).

My faith stays with BA as a favourite since they do appear to manage the financial situation with good governance.:D

Thanks for the info EGTC – any pics extant of that Jumbo – I never saw it…

EDIT…

d’oh – google is your friend… here it is…

http://www.airliners.net/photo/0065702/M/

A half-arsed effort by the looks of it…

I’ve got to addmit that I did actually look for that pic before my initial post but I couldnt find that pic! 🙂 Yeah, I believe they stated it was just made of spares that they had.

Regarding BA’s advert – I really do like it. I’m not normally a fan of BA but I do really like that advert. I think that if I was still a kid I would watch that ad and see the pilots in their uniforms walking around the planes and be even more inspired to be a pilot.. sadly these days at 27 i’m looking at other possible career options as flying is just becoming too expensive in a day when jobs in any industry are hard to come by.

I saw an advert for Air France last week. All I can recall was my mum looking at me and saying ‘Whats that all about? How does that promote air france? Its not as good as BA or virgin’s adverts’

BA did have a B747 classic in BOAC livery for a very very very short time in the late 90’s I believe.

I’d love to see a B777 in BOAC livery. An A320 in BEA livery with red wings would also look good I think.

or just bring back the landor livery!

Thanks for the info EGTC – any pics extant of that Jumbo – I never saw it…

EDIT…

d’oh – google is your friend… here it is…

http://www.airliners.net/photo/0065702/M/

A half-arsed effort by the looks of it…

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91121

Seems that the profit is not all that it seems

From the thread that you linked to…

Singapore Airlines, in its own recently-released full-year figures, stated that its associated companies lost S$106 million ($73 million) in the fourth quarter to March 2009.

“That’s largely coming out of our investment in Virgin Atlantic,” said Singapore Airlines senior vice-president for finance Chan Hon Chew.

And how many other associated companies and subsidaries does Singapore Airlines own or have investment percentages in…and, even if this is the case, I would say that this is the fault of Singapore, not Virgin’s, as it was them that chose to invest in Virgin, not the other way round?

Im all for Rewarding Staff if a profit was made…

Really…

Separately, it has emerged that BA boss Willie Walsh and other executives will receive substantial pay rises after the two airlines merge.

Mr Walsh will become chief executive of the combined company – International Consolidated Airlines Group – and will see his basic pay rise 12% to £825,000 a year.

He will also be eligible for performance-related bonuses under the merger deal, that will be capped at twice his basic pay, or £1.65m

BA chief financial officer Keith Williams, will see his basic pay rise 43% to £630,000 after his promotion to replace Mr Walsh as BA chief executive

Mr Williams’ bonus will be capped at 1.5 times his basic salary.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11649792

Obviously this was reported back when WW was CEO at BA, but it seems like BA prefer to reward their management with higher salaries and inflated bonuses, rather than reward their front-line staff for their hard work!

…but to hand out a reward then Axes 600 staff seems quite odd to me , and it seem to backs up my initial comments about the so called Profit and the creative accountancy that they use

And yet again I find myself asking you to back up your statements…where did you get the figure of “600” staff from?

Also, how many of those supposed “600” staff were front-line workers…probably not that many, more likely to be admin/back-office staff that they no require seeing as they have managed to double their profits from the previous year! And at least they got a reward before they left, unlike at BA where I suspect you’d be lucky to given a “Thank you”.

And, so what if they made redundancies after a profitable year. Even Steve Ridgway said himself after announcing the financial results that the next year was “going to be tough” and that the airline would “cut costs as aggressively as possible.” And as we know, staff costs are one of the biggest expense.

And is that A good Business Strategy especially when the parent company exposes the truth

Errr…which parent company are you talking about here?

If your talking about Singapore exposing the truth, I think you meant to say partner company, not parent company?

BA on the other have a legal duty to issue correct figures as they are a PLC and are listed on the Stock Exchange, they aren’t using smoke and Mirrors to make themselves look good.

Economics yet again ,its the same old story from you Cloud 9 you seem to think that the Economic recession dose not affect BA, it effects them a lot more than the tiddlers at LHR a Lot more

Tosh, absolute tosh!:mad:

Please do inform me where I implied or suggested that the economic recession does not affect BA…I’d really like to know?!

The economic recession affects all airlines, and I would in fact agree with what you just said above about it affecting BA a lot more, but that is as a consequence of them being listed on the stock market as it makes them far more vunerable to external factors.

You have certainly hit the nail on the head about the alliances
No one will touch VS for that very reason

Whilst they might not do something right now, it does not mean to say that they will not think/look more into it when things do improve in the future, so its wrong of you to suggest that no one will touch VS, even BA have shown an interest, but only so that they can get their grubby little mitts on the slots at LHR!

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91121

Seems that the profit is not all that it seems

Im all for Rewarding Staff if a profit was made ,but to hand out a reward then Axes 600 staff seems quite odd to me , and it seem to backs up my initial comments about the so called Profit and the creative accountancy that they use
And is that A good Business Strategy especially when the parent company exposes the truth

BA on the other have Have a legal duty to issue correct figures as they are a PLC and are listed on the Stock Exchange, they aren’t using smoke and Mirrors to make themselves look good

Economics yet again ,its the same old story from you Cloud 9 you seem to think that the Economic recession dose not affect BA, it effects them a lot more than the tiddlers at LHR a Lot more

You have certainly hit the nail on the head about the alliances
No one will touch VS for that very reason

Where are Virgin Now ?http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/eu/allaboutus/pressoffice/pressreleases/news/financialresults.jsp

I know were BA are http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11649792

I suppose you both mean Sir Richard!!;);) But is it also possible that Virgin isn’t interested in alliances per se?

BA are celebrating their Heritage and that they aren’t a chav airlines like the many ones that are about these day

“Chav” airlines eh?

I’m afraid such phrases only reinforce the snobbery that seems to pervade the public perception of BA.

Quite agree Arthur, well said!:)

Would you care to back this up

was it not last Year ,MR B announced that VS had made a profit the year before ,Slagging off BA because it made a loss

Sure…I can and will back this up.:)

Firstly it was not last year…it was back in 2009!

Secondly, it was Steve Ridgway, the Chief Executive of Virgin Atlantic, who announced it, not “MR B”, whoever that may be; I assume you meant to say Mr Branson but couldn’t bring yourself to type his full surname!

And yes, Virgin did make an annual pre-tax profit of £68.4m, compared to the annual pre-tax loss of £401m that British Airways announced just a week before Virgin announced their results!

Now, given the fact that VS did in fact manage to double what they made the year before (£34.8m in 2008), and bearing in mind that this was at the height of the recession, I am really struggling now how you can justify that BA is a better business?

BUt wasn’t seen or heard off when Singapore Clearly stated that Virgin had made a large Loss, I had forgotten giving all their staff a free flight ,but paying off 400 members the next week Great Profit they made

So what your suggesting is that it is/was wrong of Virgin to reward their staff for their efforts when they make a profit?

Whilst giving all their staff a free flight might well have reduced that overall profit, it certainly would not have led them to making a “large loss”, and again, it shows that Virgin is a better business because they were actually able to offer their staff a reward, unlike BA who couldn’t afford to give their staff a reward because they had made such a huge loss, instead they then chose to bully their staff into changing their working terms and conditions, which then led to the strikes last year and earlier this year!

A Better Business if it is so why aren’t the airlines clambering to Have VS in their alliances so that they can share their great Business strategy of Lying to make themselves look good

The answer to this is more than likely to be because of the uncertainty of the economic climate…?

All the airlines that may have expressed an interest in Virgin have to focus on making sure that they can stay afloat themselves in order to stay in business before buying into another carrier.

If they chose to do it right now, and then the economy falters even further, or worst still back into recession, then the airline would end up making huge losses which could and would adversely affect both of them as businesses as a whole.

It doesn’t take a degree in economics to work that one out, its just common sense?!

I wonder what airline this is based on. 🙂

Great British Air

Arthur, I think you’re being too kind…perhaps the one below sums them up a bit better!:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6NU9vKJPgU&feature=related

Pete no worries

We can debate the reasons separately but I was simply responding to your post in response to GA, when you seemed not to have understood his comment.:)

Hi Pete

No worries.:)

Lance and I get on fine and he will have a ‘crack’ at me at times but I know he means well and often it sets me thinking as do your responses along with the responsible members of the forum.:)

I am used to professional “brain storming” where the strongest arguments and differences of opinions bring out the best product or service.

I like BA, always have done, so did my parents who travelled widely, and my late dad never had one word of complaint about B.O.A.C. or BA as he often travelled globally on corporate HR business relating to the oil industry.

Like any airline or large business they will never be perfect but it’s my own choice in wishing to like them. They have never done me any deliberate wrong.:)

“Chav” airlines eh?

I’m afraid such phrases only reinforce the snobbery that seems to pervade the public perception of BA.

I wonder what airline this is based on. 🙂

Great British Air

Indeed, I have seen this advert countless number of times on TV, and I personally think that it is/was one of the best adverts around. And yes, whilst it does hark back to the past, it does so for a very good reason…to help celebrate an important milestone (25 years!). And the slogan “Still red hot” was genius…it makes people like me think something on the lines of “I wonder if they’ll still be red hot in another 25 years time?”, and for me that is a rather exciting prospect to look forward to.

Sorry that advert made them out to be what they are chav airlines Look everybody we got Red uniforms ,so what and they had to go back to 1984 to make themselves look better than everyone else because they cant compete in the real world

BA is/are not using this latest campaign to help them celebrate an important milestone, and as I have said before, their advert does not provide me with half as much enthusiasm or an exciting prospect to look forward to!

BA are celebrating their Heritage and that they aren’t a chav airlines like the many ones that are about these day

Of course its “initiative” because it helps to get attention, and gets people interested in flying on that particular route. So what if SRB dresses up and makes a bit of a scene, it certainly attracts more attention than what BA could ever attract for a route launch!

I think you will find that WW has more respect for himself ,the airline and his passengers and BA doesn’t need Gimmicks to promote its routes
Richard Branson the MOL of Heathrow

Care to back that up with some evidence…?

Last I heard, there has been expressions of interest from Delta (SkyTeam), or if anything comes about of the possible accquisition of bmi from Lufthansa (Star Alliance), or they might just end up forming a brand new alliance altogether, which may include the likes of a carrier such as Etihad Airways, so I think the chances of them joining an alliance is almost gaurenteed!

What Alliance are they a member of ,NONE when every major British carrier is a members of an alliance it is especially telling when an airline who has a major stake in Virgin wont invite them to the Star alliance, In fact Singapore have been quite open and willing to let their shares go but no one will take up their offer Why,s That?
they only way VS will get into an Alliance is to start it own and it will still be what it is, small fry trying to compete with the big boys

Clearly I must be suffering from a sense of humour failure because I am struggling to see what’s so funny about it, but anywho…?

This will have been done for a good reason, and it will be a decision that is not taken lightly. Naturally, it is in every airline’s best interests to protect its revenue, but on the occasions when it is absolutely essential to do so (i.e. delay, cancellation?) they will choose to do this as they know that it would ultimately cost them much more if they chose not to.

Indeed BA does exactly the same…they’ve often used Continental on a number of occasions to help get their passengers to Houston and Newark when they have cancelled a flight, and like-wise Continental uses other major airlines when faced with the same circumstances, although this will soon become less of an issue due to the merger with United.

Let see an Airline who continual slagged off BA on Telly needing the Rival to convey their crews and passengers to LHR so that they might provide a service In fact their preferred airline at Glasgow was BMI (as it was a Star Alliance Member) but their Staff opted for BA because of the service

Oh please…that is a totally ridiculous statement to make. Virgin is in no way following in the shadows of British Airways. Ok, so Virgin might well be smaller than BA, and have fewer planes, and indeed serve fewer destinations, but that in no way makes BA a better business!

Would you care to back this up

was it not last Year ,MR B announced that VS had made a profit the year before ,Slagging off BA because it made a loss ,BUt wasn’t seen or heard off when Singapore Clearly stated that Virgin had made a large Loss, I had forgotten giving all their staff a free flight ,but paying off 400 members the next week Great Profit they made
A Better Business if it is so why aren’t the airlines clambering to Have VS in their alliances so that they can share their great Business strategy of Lying to make themselves look good

We can debate the reasons separately but I was simply responding to your post in response to GA, when you seemed not to have understood his comment.:)

Hi Pete – yes agree but it’s all down to economics

Hi Pete – yes agree but it’s all down to economics.

Aircraft in the right place at the right time. Also since competitors have snapped up some of those markets/routes BA phased out or never bothered.

My recent post laments the same. I could do with BA routes from EDI to Manchester, Birmingham and Cardiff but alas.

The code share arrangement with Loganair, Flybe to the highlands and islands is a Godsend for it’s populations and with many efforts being made to boost some of the crafts and products e.g. Harris Tweed is making a comeback or so I am told in the world of exclusive fashion.

I’d rather they manage to stay well afloat financially (with as some on this forum describe “ageing fleet” – my comment to this is “tried and tested known devils with great safety and service records”) in this current economic trough the world is in.

BA will always remain my favourite since I flew on B.O.A.C. at the age of 15 months and was apparently the ‘honey’ of the stewardesses (I guess I started young):D

Jay

I read it differently. I don’t think there is any objection to LHR being the key hub – it would be ridiculous if it were not – but rather that BA should be flying to other destinations, domestic and international, than LHR from the key regional airports. With which I would agree.

I don’t like the advert. Just my opinion of course. Compared to the fun adverts VS and ANZ put out, the BA advert isn’t selling me anything I wouldn’t expect from any other airline. They want to serve their customers? Yeah….well…is that not what they are supposed to do? Why should I fly with them; just because they are telling me they have been around for yonks and are alright at serving their customers?

If KLM and/or Air France are offering me a similar/cheaper price from EDI to AMS/CDG, I will take that! The BA advert doesn’t entice me to choose to fly with them and have to pass through LHR in the process. I understand the hub and spoke system and also understand that airlines need to cut routes to maximise profits, but I think it’s a joke that BA don’t fly anywhere else outside the UK, apart from London. I am happy to be proven wrong, but what other ‘national carrier’ only flies from one of their countries cities to outside of it?

I will fly with BA if the price is right, but I will not fly with them because of that advert.

Well, I like the new BA advert very much. Generally first-tier airlines have made ads for the business class traveller and I find them out of touch with normal travellers. This ad takes us back to a time when the pilot was also the airline’s representitive and would stroll back thru the cabin reassuring the pax.

I enjoyed the excellent computer graphics of the BOAC VC10s. I couldn’t decide if the BEA C47 was real or computer generated. It looked real as did the BEA Rapide (all post war fleet types). My only criticism is the lack of reference to Imperial Airways and its successful Empire flying boat fleet and the trailblazing long-haul route network. they made to Australia and India. We should have seen an Empire class boat there with it’s luxurious interiors harking back to the last days of romantic air travel (pre-war, that is) as it flew at 200 feet agl along an Australasian or Arabian coast line to some romantic destination, as yet untouched by modernity.

I also think they missed out on BEA in its heyday, the 1960s and a Trident would have been nice as that was the mainstay fleet type then. I got the feeling that British Airways sees itself historically as a long haul airline (Imperial/BOAC) with little BEA a poor sister serving local destinations only.

All in all a nice, nostalgic advert that must have cost a lot to make. Well done, BA. (for once.) And wouldn’t it be something to see a 747 in retro BOAC livery at Heathrow?

Slightly unsure of what’s expected as a reply but here goes

Just to the three London airports, then?

Not quite the picture you were painting for us in post #32, is it?

Hi Lance

Slightly unsure of what’s expected as a reply but here goes.

I am more than happy with LHR as BA’s hub as stated in #32
IMO relocating it or decentralising it in the present economic climate would be utter madness strategy on the part of BA.

What EDI could do with is more BA flights to other UK cities.

I believe AP is asking who operates some BA flights to the Scottish islands and my answer is Loganair, Fly Be with a BA prefixed number.

Sandy you are a whizz kid

Challenge accepted Jay:

Hi Sandy

Thank you kindly sir.:)

You sure are a whizz kid with respect to art.:D

Drinks on me when we finally do meet.:)

I hope you are in a position to sip a glass or two at launch time Monday 26 Sept. albeit contractually ANA have an ownership signoff already.

I shall certainly try to watch any live video or web cast and sip a glass at launch time.

We are entering a new era – what’s 4 years delays if she re-takes the high ground for Boeing.