British Airways colonial routes!

Again Mongu, your description of the zambia avaition and political scene is very accurate and spot on! As a Zambian iam glad to see that some people have their facts right about Africa! Well done!

No worries! It’s nice to find somebody else who knows about the Zambian scene.

And guess where the name “mongu” came from?

I never lived in Zambia, but have been there a lot. I’ve flow to Kitwe Southdowns (is it closed now?), Ndola, Chingola, Mfuwe, Livingstone, Mongu and of course Lusaka.

I’m supposedly (though, to be honest, I’m trying to worm out of it) going to Livingstone in January. What is the best way? The last time I went there (easily 5 years ago) I flew from LUN with Zimbabwe Express Airlines on an ATR-42. The time before that it was a coach trip from Lusaka, an experience I don’t want to repeat. Somebody mentioned that you can now fly direct from JNB – is that so?

Again Mongu, your description of the zambia avaition and political scene is very accurate and spot on! As a Zambian iam glad to see that some people have their facts right about Africa! Well done!

It should be noted that Virgin Atlantic is showing growing interest in Africa, they are in West Africa, South Africa and are showing interest in partnership ventures in the region. There is money to be made in africa, BA knows this but the laid back attitude is beyond me!

In the past 5 years, I have witnessed Zambia picking up as a destination.

(1) Tourism wise, the redevelopment of Livingstone as a destination. Some nice new hotels there, by Victoria Falls. Helped by the fact that the rival town of Victoria Falls, is located in Zimbabwe.

(2) The Zimbabwe exodus. Farmers and traders from Zim are crossing into Zambia as it is politically far more stable.

(3) Governmental. The Zambian government is a “little” less corrupt these days. There are some good new initiatives. FDI is slowly increasing – the South African government underwrites a lot of it. Global trade from Zambia is evolving technically – there is even a bilateral tax treaty with Ireland now.

SAA fly daily (twice daily?) JNB-LUN. Last time I saw their planes on the tarmac it was with 738’s. By contract, the BA franchise (Comair) were using 732’s and I think that might have been only daily. SAA also fly JNB-NLA (Ndola) with the EMB-145. I think InterAir fly JNB-NLA also, with a 721.

LUN also receives service from Ethiopian to Addis Ababa (752 and 763). Air Kenya fly to Nairobi with a 738 and possibly (I’m not sure) a 767 service too.

Yet what is BA’s response? Downgrade the route.

It’s silly. ALL the indicators say that demand is there and that it exceeds supply, even with stable good yields.

Are BA really so short of aircraft? They’re getting rid of their 757’s and want rid of their 767’s too it seems. They booted their 742’s out like a bad smell after 9/11. I find it hard to be sympathetic for a shortage when so many aircraft are gotten rid of before their time.

Throughout the early to mid 1990s I flew many times on BA’s route to Gaborone – Botswana being an ex-colony – initially from LGW via Lusaka on DC10s, and from about 1995 on 744s, which flew down to JNB and then back up to GBE (usually with about 50pax!) where it day stopped to return to LHR via JNB in the evening. The flight was made wice weekly. I believe the route was stopped shortly after BA begun operating Comair as a franchise and BA pax flew from JNB to GBE on Comair ATR42s.

An impressive network in Africa from BCal. These African routes were amongst the most profitable as well. It was the short haul routes that were loss-making.

I did note the light frequencies, but tourism in Senegal and the Gambia was in its infancy in those days and has developed much more now, so I think BA would be able to operate a twice weekly frequency to Dakar, Banjul and Freetown possibly with A320 or 757, which has the range and mid-capacity for these routes.

On this topic, I thought you might be interested in the services that British Caledonian used to operate to Africa:(note some of the routings!!)

In Summer 1977:

LGW-
ALGIERS 3 x Weekly BAC 1-11 Direct
CASABLANCA-LAS PALMAS-BANJUL-FREETOWN 2 X Weekly BAC 1-11(8 sector trip!)
CASABLANCA 1 x Weekly BAC1-11 Direct
CASABLANCA-FREETOWN-MONROVIA 1 x Weekly B707
DAKAR-FREETOWN-MONROVIA 1 x Weekly B707
KINSHASA-LUSAKA 1 x Weekly B707
LAGOS 2 x Weekly DC10-30/B707 Direct
LAGOS-ACCRA 3 x Weekly DC10-30
LUSAKA 2 x Weekly B707 Direct
TRIPOLI 4 x Weekly BAC1-11/B707 Direct
TUNIS 2 x Weekly BAC1-11 Direct

In 1982:

LGW-
ABIDJAN-LAGOS 2 x Weekly DC10-30
ALGIERS 2 x Weekly BAC1-11 Direct
BANJUL-FREETOWN 1 x Weekly B707
BANJUL-FREETOWN-MONROVIA 1 x Weekly B707
BANJUL-MONROVIA 1 x Weekly 707
CASABLANCA 1 x Weekly BAC1-11 Direct
CASABLANCA-TANGIER 1 x Weekly BAC1-11
DAKAR-FREETOWN 1 x Weekly B707
DOUALA-LUSAKA 1 x Weekly B707
LAGOS-KANO 3 x Weekly B747
LAGOS 4 x Weekly 747/DC10 Direct
LAGOS-ACCRA 3 x Weekly DC10-30
LUSAKA 2 x Weekly B707 Direct
ORAN 1 x Weekly BAC1-11 Direct
TRIPOLI 4 x Weekly B707/BAC1-11
TUNIS 3 x Weekly BAC1-11 Direct

For any BCAL fans check the photo link..

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/510877/L/

The previous post illustartes my point, that Africa is not high on the agenda at Britsh Airways. Downgrading the Lusaka flight to a 763 is ridiculous. It wasnt long ago BA were operating 742 and the then Zambia Airways were operateing DC10s. Now there is only BA and every flight is booked solid. Despite this they put what for BA, is their third rate long haul equipment on the route.

Flights to Lilongwe have stopped altogether, so I suppose Zambia should consider itself lucky to be one of the ever dwindling number of African destinations for BA.

BA COLONIAL ROUTES (ZAMBIA)

Great topic!
This is in addition to comments raised by “Mongu” posted on 18th August about BA flights to Lusaka(LUN), being Zambiam myself and worked as a BA PR agent i know only to well the need for extra frequency on the route. From a 744 not long ago its now operating a 763 with the same frequency. You can’t get an available seat on a flight out to LUN for the next couple months!!

Interestingly the Zambian government is in the process of setting up a new national carrier which means BA is in for some competition! The fact is , there is room for competition but BA will need to revisit its tacticts!

I’have heard that the 772 may be reintroduced on the route, I hope. 😀

I know that BA would face many constraints in Africa, particularly at places like Freetown which has security issues and poor infastructure, also I think part of the reason BA ignores such destinations is they arent particularly fashionable or trendy.

Neither BA, GB Airways nor BMed necessarily choose to fly on routes because they are fashionable or trendy (e.g. Detroit, Bishkek or Dusseldorf), they do so because there is sufficient demand for them to do so. SNBA, AF and TAP likewise serve destinations where there is sufficient demand. Demand has to be regarded from a pan-European perspective these days; if a passenger wants to fly from Brussels to Yerevan he is likely to have to fly via London. If a passenger wishes to fly from Manchester to Banjul (scheduled) he would probably have to change in Lisbon.

Mongu.

You also have to factor in hardware. BA are stuggling with the routes they have due to a shortage of aircraft.
I think they relaise they dumped the 757’s a little too quickly and are now caught short.

They do not have the aircraft to start more routes just now.

[QUOTE=Bmused55]Its all about numbers.
An Airline will not start up a route or continue a route when the PAX number will not support it.

…QUOTE]

Another interesting issue.

What’s one of the first lessons any manager learns in strategy? If the numbers are negative, reject a project, unless there are sound strategic reasons why not. Ever heard of a loss leader?

Sometimes routes are unprofitable but nevertheless they are continued with. Even profitable airlines do this on occassion, albeit as the exception rather than the rule.

Its all about numbers.
An Airline will not start up a route or continue a route when the PAX number will not support it.

Clearly you have no understanding of this concept and feel airlines should operate wherever, regardless of pax number.

If you were an airline CEO Danairboy, your airline would never make it past a month old. Over expanding your routes and developing huge overheads with free meals and sweets.

Well it is clearly impossible to argue either way what the demand is like, unless you actually do a little route proving. Or have access to demand modelling data from an airline’s planning department, though clearly these things do go wrong sometimes.

So all we have to go on are indicators – such as anecdotal evidence.

Based on these, there are a lot of routes where the demand conditions are right for increased frequency. There a some potential destinations that look like good bets.

In the real world, it is not always down to passenger demand. Sometimes there are inter-governmental issues; or logistical issues to do with scheduling. These could both prevent the launch of a seemingly successful route. As could a risk averse mentality.

That, I think, is essentially what Danairboy and others were trying to portray.

Yes they do and are proud of it. Cabo Verde, Maputo, Luanda and a rich network to Brazil, Rio, Sao Paolo, Recife, Salvador.

I know that BA would face many constraints in Africa, particularly at places like Freetown which has security issues and poor infastructure, also I think part of the reason BA ignores such destinations is they arent particularly fashionable or trendy.

or perhaps they simply don’t see the demand.

Yes they do and are proud of it. Cabo Verde, Maputo, Luanda and a rich network to Brazil, Rio, Sao Paolo, Recife, Salvador.

I know that BA would face many constraints in Africa, particularly at places like Freetown which has security issues and poor infastructure, also I think part of the reason BA ignores such destinations is they arent particularly fashionable or trendy.

TAP still operate a lot of colonial routes too.

British world went under.

Does that not show you something,
Sabena went under…. come on! its slapping you in the face!

Beleiving there is demand and the demand actually being there are 2 totaly different things.

Not as such, but I believe the demand is there. British World operated the LGW to Freetown and Banjul service for awhile and had to increase frequency due to the demand.

Also I know this area quite well, I had a partner who worked for the Foreign Office in Freetown before the civil strife and a lot of business men in the Gambia used to have to fly Sabena Via Brusseld to London, when SN operated this route.

Bmused, BMed have started Khartoum, so why couldnt they make a success of a Banjul with Freetown tag, operated by A320. The demand is there, like I said before, tourism is flourishing and not everyone wants to fly charter, also a proportion of VFR traffic and business people. High yielding as well.

Do you have official facts and figures for this apparent demand?

Bmused, BMed have started Khartoum, so why couldnt they make a success of a Banjul with Freetown tag, operated by A320. The demand is there, like I said before, tourism is flourishing and not everyone wants to fly charter, also a proportion of VFR traffic and business people. High yielding as well.