British WW1 Pilot's without parachute's

Brown underpant’s

Thank’s Eric.
Was that in all three of the type’s :confused: .even the early type’s.

Did anyone ever have to get out of a V-bomber in a hurry at anytime :confused: ,

And if so were did they make it Ok.(I don’t think it would be to much fun bailing from a jet 😮 )

Cheer’s all 😀 , Tally :dev2: Ho! :dev2: Ho! Phil :diablo: .

Pilot and co-pilot ejected, the rest jumped.

Moving foward some what now,

But how did one leave one of the V-force Bomber’s Plane’s if you had too.

Cheer’s all, Tally Ho! Ho! Phil.

Parachutes and More Parachutes

Along the same line, why weren’t British paratroopers issued with reserve parachutes until 1949?
During WW II, Canadian paratroopers used reserves when training with the US at Fort Benning, with the First Special Service Force (Devil’s Brigade), and back home at the Airborne Centre in Rivers, Manitoba, but not when training at Ringway or under British command (1st Canadian Parachute Battalion) in the 6th Airborne Division.
Was it a matter of pure economics?

dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

Don
while I’m far from being a John Terraine type Haig apologist. What you say about infantry tactics isn’t strictly true in the context of the Commonwealth forces. I do admit that the French army in 1914 had a philosophy of the bayonet would always prevail but that didn’t survive too long.
The volunteer ‘New Army’ of 1916 used fatally flawed tactics on the Somme in 1916 but this was because it was perceived by GHQ that they were not sufficiently trained to work in any other way.
By the end of 1917 the Commonwealth armies were becoming a fully integrated force combining artillery, infantry, armour and air power.
It worked quite well in the last months of the war.
Sadly it was all forgotten between the wars.

Discuss???
Andy

Andy

I was of course taking the p!ss with my cunning plan remark – I think you are right. It seems to me in my post-modern perspective :rolleyes: that in some way the value of a human life was cheaper then. “Over the top lads.” And not a hell of a lot better in WWII. “5% loss rate tonight sir?, that’d be pretty good?” Or the Dams raid!

At school I studied Wilfred Owen …

Now of course we try ever so hard to be more careful, with our cruise missiles and laser guided bombs and heaven forbid (and not stated lightly), 767s and suicide bombers; all are much more accurate.

But does this actually mean we value human life more? Perhaps it’s just a trend to more accurate targeting and efficiencies of destruction.

Erm. Apologies for hijacking the thread, but seeing as we’re talking WW1 here…

I’m planning on commemorating the anniversary of the death of a young RFC airman in a few weeks time by cleaning his headstone and laying a wreath. However, rather than a standard flowery one, I’d like to get hold of a plain wreath with the Royal Flying Corps badge on it.

Would anyone have any ideas how I might be able to acquire such a thing?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

Yes – but the structure was rather different to the FAA of WW2 – which was what I was getting at.

I would assume that naval aicrew were issued with parachutes at the same time the land based aircrew were.

The RAF probably started issuing parachutes to aircrew in the early 1920s. There was no Fleet Air Arm at the time. Aircaft flying off Royal Navy ships were flown by RAF aircrew. The Royal Navy only regained control over its naval aviation assets in the 1930s by which times parachutes were standard issue.

Have another look at your history book. It may well have been the Fleet Air Arm of the Royal Air Force until 1939 but there were naval officers flying as well as air force. The sea lords provided the ships whilst the RAF provided the ‘planes, and the chance to be at the forefront of naval aviation by the start of the 2nd world war was drastically set back, but a fair proportion of the crews were navy – my great grandfather included. – Nermal

But, It’s a long way down Sir!!!

Shiver me timber’s :dev2: , All a head full 😡 , Let’s Send in another 100000 of those damn Colonist’s 😡 .

Whoop’s which thread am I on :rolleyes:
.
Got lost while watching Blackadder 😀 .
Oh, Chute’s!!!
No Chute’s.
Well just jump out when you get close to the ground then and flap your arm’s very fast and don’t forget to roll when you hit the ground, now go away you ninney I have Tea to drink :rolleyes: .

Thank’s for the imput guy’s 😎

Cheer’s all 😀 , Tally :dev2: Ho! :dev2: Ho! Phil :diablo: .

The RAF probably started issuing parachutes to aircrew in the early 1920s. There was no Fleet Air Arm at the time. Aircaft flying off Royal Navy ships were flown by RAF aircrew. The Royal Navy only regained control over its naval aviation assets in the 1930s by which times parachutes were standard issue.

So when did the RAF routinely issue aircrew with parachutes? Was it the same for the FAA?
And what about other air forces? – Nermal

Stormbird, you’re bang on.

In WWII RAF there was a syndrome known as LMF (lack of moral fibre). It referred to aircrew, primarily Bomber Command aircrew who couldn’t take it any more. It was seen as a fundamentally unacceptable reaction by the powers that be. :rolleyes:

In WWI the concept was similar, but then it related to parachuting. Parachutes although new-fangled were effective. But the thinking was that without one the pilot was more likely to put up a strong fight (otherwise he would die). I have a book around here somewhere on WWI Aces that makes this point very clearly, if I can find it, I’ll quote it.

Oh yes, at the same time the armies had this cunning plan that masses of men running could overpower machine guns.

Don
while I’m far from being a John Terraine type Haig apologist. What you say about infantry tactics isn’t strictly true in the context of the Commonwealth forces. I do admit that the French army in 1914 had a philosophy of the bayonet would always prevail but that didn’t survive too long.
The volunteer ‘New Army’ of 1916 used fatally flawed tactics on the Somme in 1916 but this was because it was perceived by GHQ that they were not sufficiently trained to work in any other way.
By the end of 1917 the Commonwealth armies were becoming a fully integrated force combining artillery, infantry, armour and air power.
It worked quite well in the last months of the war.
Sadly it was all forgotten between the wars.

Discuss???
Andy

Stormbird, you’re bang on.

In WWII RAF there was a syndrome known as LMF (lack of moral fibre). It referred to aircrew, primarily Bomber Command aircrew who couldn’t take it any more. It was seen as a fundamentally unacceptable reaction by the powers that be. :rolleyes:

In WWI the concept was similar, but then it related to parachuting. Parachutes although new-fangled were effective. But the thinking was that without one the pilot was more likely to put up a strong fight (otherwise he would die). I have a book around here somewhere on WWI Aces that makes this point very clearly, if I can find it, I’ll quote it.

Oh yes, at the same time the armies had this cunning plan that masses of men running could overpower machine guns.

I think the atitude of the expendability of the combatants had a lot to do with lack of urgency in developing a practical parachute for aircraft. As aircraft became more sophisticated and pilot training became more involved – and expensive, the economics of throwing a good pilot away as well as a good aeroplane just didn’t make sense.

Eric
I tend to agree with what you’re saying.
I know that there was a memo sent from someone to someone in The War Office early in the war about pilots deserting a perfectly good aircraft in an emergency etc but I think the significance of this has been exagerated over the years.
Far more likely as you say that one technology just hadn’t caught up with another.

Balloon parachutes like the Calthrop(?) ‘Guardian Angel’ were carried in inverted baskets outside the kite balloon observation basket. They were very bulky and certainly wouldn’t have been easy to accomodate in an aeroplane.

Having said all that, being shot down in a ‘flamer’ was a re-occuring horror of Great War pilots and a great many lives could have been saved if a useable parachute had have been developed.

Cheers
Andy

Early parachutes werte pretty primitive, and heavy. I think the ones used in observation balloons tended to be left on the floor of the basket. When the balloon had to be vacated in a hurry, the occupant merely lifted the parachute in his arms and leaped over the side. This wasn’t practical in the aieroplanes then in use, especially those being used at the beginning of the war. Of course, by about 1917, weight wasn’t such an issue and Irvin (I think) had developed a rip-cord activated chute which could have been used in an aeroplane. However, the precedent had by now been established that aeroplanes didn’t carry ‘chutes and it took until after WW1 for them to become sdtandard in the RAF.

The German Imperial Air Service started using chutes in 1918 so that was probably the first time that it was really possible to fit them into the standard cockpit of the day.