Briton Executed in China (Merged)

“As if”?

Have you not seen Strictly Come Dancing, then?

and the first contestant for post of the year, 2010 is Grey Area !!!:D

It’s as if as a nation we all have some sort of mental illness ?? :confused::confused::eek:

“As if”?

Have you not seen Strictly Come Dancing, then?

It seems like recently whenever a brit commits any offence in another country and he/she gets caught they all seem to plead that they have some sort of mental illness ???
It’s as if as a nation we all have some sort of mental illness ?? :confused::confused::eek:

This incident invites more questions than there will ever be answers. But in an attempt to simplify the case I will pose two questions.

1. If he was suffering from any sort of mental illness why was his journey to China not closely supervised and accompanied?

2. If he was not suffering from a mental illness and was just stupid enough to be duped then he has paid the penalty.

Anyone travelling to countries with very different legal systems than our own should be aware of the potential risks before they travel.

But surely that’s the whole point,that he didn’t knowthat he was carrying it ?
If he really was bi-polar,which used to be known as manic depression,and he was in a bad manic phase when he was duped into carrying the heroin,he genuinely can’t be held responsible for his actions.
The people who should have been executed are the people who gave it to him.

If the man in question was knowingly carrying the heroin or was connected in any way then the punishment should be the decision of the Chinese authorities. That decision should then be respected by foreign nations. I personally find the defence of having Bi-polar deeply offensive it has little to no bearing on a person’s moral compass and decision making ability. You would know that heroin is heroin and trying to smuggle it into a nation with a strict judicial system was dangerous and downright stupid. Furthermore the fact that he was alone and so far from home in a not so friendly part of the world shows that any mental illness was mild and if the family did have concerns what was he doing travelling alone.

If this man was known to be mentally ill, to be vulnerable and susceptible to coercion then surely you have to ask the family why they allowed him to enter such a vulnerable position. Where was his family at that time? Where was his CPN?

Regards,

kev35

Couldn’t agree more. If he was as unstable as his family are subsequently making out in the media, then they should perhaps be considering their lack of action in keeping him out of harms way. Sometimes you have to consider root causes as well as end actions.

I’m thinking of the South African Airways incidents where drug dealer’s accomplices working at the departure airport were able to include baggage on the flight in someone else’s name, in that case the crew. This was completely unbeknown to the crew. The baggage is then intercepted at the other end. It seems a frightening prospect that your name could be chosen off the passenger list by the perpetrators, and then you get picked up at the destination and have your head chopped off. Not sure that is what happened to our subject, but I sincerely hope the Chinese and others would be able to determine the difference to someone knowingly carrying the stuff.

“The symptoms that are similar are: odd habits, compulsive behavior and spells of rage. Both disorders tend to lack the social development skills as well as the educational, behavioral and anger issues”

I’m no doctor, but…
I don’t see anything in that definition that would excuse or explain smuggling 4 kilos (seems like a lot to me) of drugs into China or knowingly hacking into a military site. Both actions are an obvious no-no to anyone smart enough to use a computer or allowed to travel abroad without family or minders.

Based on that definition, both sound more like excuses than anything else.
But then, I don’t know the cases…but almost anyone can claim some of ther symptoms listed above.

Could you please explain the similarities between Asperger’s Syndrome and Bi-Polar Disorder please?

No need to explain. A quick search on Google found this…

“The symptoms that are similar are: odd habits, compulsive behavior and spells of rage. Both disorders tend to lack the social development skills as well as the educational, behavioral and anger issues”

http://www.articlesbase.com/mental-health-articles/bipolar-and-aspergers-disorders-understanding-the-differences-between-the-two-739520.html

It is a sad story. I am a firm believer of when in rome do as the romans do…..several years ago there was uproar when an idiot graffitist was whipped in Singapore for what he did – he deserved it.

The fact is that the UK has become a namby pamby state that does not have punishments that fit the crime or are a deterrent. The same offence committed in the UK (by a lorry driver) resulted in the perpetrator getting 5 years (will be out in 2.5 years!)…..so on one hand death, other 2.5years…..somewhere between probably lies the proper sentence.

I find my compatriots are pious and often pontificating about many things that other countries do and dont do. As a rule of thumb dont do the crime as ignorance is no defence. I think the UK is in for some very tough choices, we have rising crime and reducing social respect….criticising other country’s judicial systems will not mend ours which is still inadequate and broken.

Bipolar is a sad mental disorder as are all mental illnesses. There are some notable celebrities who have it. One of whom does lots of travel. I don’t think it is necessarily a suitable excuse. It has been said the chap also had associated psychosis….which can give extreme confusion…..
as I said sad stuff.

Was he fit enough to travel out of the UK on his own?

If he was not, why did his family let him do so?

If he had an illness that clouded his decision making, should he have been accompanied?

In our British nanny state, why was this allowed happen in the first place?

In this world of terrorism how did he actually get on a flight with what could have been 4kg of explosives?

Sadly, at the very least, this may act to deter others from doing the same thing.

Or, to put it another way, why is Mckinnon fit enough to stand trial?

Could you please explain the similarities between Asperger’s Syndrome and Bi-Polar Disorder please?

Aspergers is a form of autism and bi-polar disorder is essentially manic depression. I imagine that both could lead to clouded judgment and confusion, having worked with sufferers of both conditions.

Did he know that he was in possession of heroin?

The UK government seems to think that this ‘hacker’ is fit to stand trial, so why is somebody who is guilty of smuggling a ridiculous quantity of drugs into a country, and suffering from a similar behavioural disorder, apparently not fit to be put to death?

Or, to put it another way, why is Mckinnon fit enough to stand trial?

Could you please explain the similarities between Asperger’s Syndrome and Bi-Polar Disorder please?

I don’t know whether China were right or wrong in executing this man. I do know that according to THEIR interpretation of THEIR laws, he was fit to be tried, was convicted, sentenced and that punishment duly carried out. The simple answer to this would be to NOT smuggle 4 kilos of heroin into China. The law he broke was Chinese and, as unpalatable as we might find it, we cannot force another Country to adopt our laws, an acceptance of what our society accepts as normal and reasonable behaviour, to accept our vision of morality.

If this man was known to be mentally ill, to be vulnerable and susceptible to coercion then surely you have to ask the family why they allowed him to enter such a vulnerable position. Where was his family at that time? Where was his CPN?

Regards,

kev35

Those who smuggle drugs should face the consequences. If they knowingly carry drugs then they are not innocent. Many people have their lives ruined by drugs and so those involved in the drugs trade should be punished properly, not just given a slap on the wrist, a ridiculously short jail term or any other “punishments” we have in this country. The Chinese have the right idea. At least the death penalty is the only guaranteed method of preventing reoffending.

No surprise that criminal lovers Amnesty International object to drug smugglers being punished.

I do not blame China for their actions at all. They dealt with this man in the same way that they would have dealt with one of their own people and that’s the way the justice system works, whether we like it or not. I cannot help but feel that us Brits are (or ‘were’) using the man’s ‘mental illness’ as an excuse not to put him to death, as Akmal Shaikh and his family also tried to do.

What strikes me as odd is the recent stories in the news concerning Gary McKinnon. He is the man who suffers from Asperger’s syndrome, accused of hacking into a US military computer system. Apparently nothing more than a UFO enthusiast and not a well man himself, the UK is set to send him off to America, where he could spend up to 70 years behind bars.

The UK government seems to think that this ‘hacker’ is fit to stand trial, so why is somebody who is guilty of smuggling a ridiculous quantity of drugs into a country, and suffering from a similar behavioural disorder, apparently not fit to be put to death?

Let’s try to be rational…
China has a right to have its laws and punishments.
So the only question here is about whether his mental health defense was real. Remember just because the family of defense team says something, doesn’t mean it’s true…or untrue. The defense’s job is to get the person off or a minimal sentence. (Look at how the defense team lied about O.J., they have no regard for the truth).

Anyone here have an expert opinion whether bi-polar would effcet one’s judgement in a situation like this?
I have a friend who is bi-polar and she’s a fully functioning secondary school teacher…so although it’s a mental illness, it not a form of mental “retardation” or whatever they call it now.
She certainly knows right from wrong.

Yes, a death sentence seems harsh compared to what he’d receive in the West.
To state the obvious…. you do a crime overseas, you better know you’ll be playing by their rules. Just because you’re from the EU which is fairly lenient about these things doesn’t mean that your government or media can help you.

It seems that only a few people on this thread are prepared to believe that he had a genuine mental illness.
From my limited experience of my daughter suffering from a condition which is similar to bi-polar,but in a much milder form,I’m pretty sure that he was sane enough to know right from wrong.However,a person suffering from this condition just doesn’t think in a normal rational manner.You or I would never agree to transport a suitcase full of God-knows-what for complete strangers,but presumably he had no doubts about doing so.
I’ve heard not one word of condemnation for the people prepared to expose a mentally-ill man to certain death if caught.
I don’t in any way condone drug trafficking and this may be one of the few crimes where the death penalty is appropriate.
I see the Chinese are proclaiming their “humanity ” in letting his relatives visit him before he was executed.
It’s a pity that any such humanity couldn’t have been extended to spare this man’s life.

I simply do not know whether he did or did not. A Foreign Office minister was on BBC News saying that the British Government had ample evidence to support this view and all the relevant documentation was sent to the Chinese authorities who couldn’t have been less interested in this fact! I for one would never ever carry anything someone I did not know very well without knowing exactly what it was I was carrying. I know people with learning difficulties myself and many of them are extremely naive! However I would have thought bi-polar disorder would not have stopped you checking what you were carrying for your friend! Though I am not well informed on this so could be totally wrong. However I am not so naive as to think that it could just be one big excuse! I would like to think not but who knows!

I totally agree with you that the real villains here are those that gave him the drugs to carry not Akmal Shaikh!

It seems that only a few people on this thread are prepared to believe that he had a genuine mental illness.
From my limited experience of my daughter suffering from a condition which is similar to bi-polar,but in a much milder form,I’m pretty sure that he was sane enough to know right from wrong.However,a person suffering from this condition just doesn’t think in a normal rational manner.You or I would never agree to transport a suitcase full of God-knows-what for complete strangers,but presumably he had no doubts about doing so.
I’ve heard not one word of condemnation for the people prepared to expose a mentally-ill man to certain death if caught.
I don’t in any way condone drug trafficking and this may be one of the few crimes where the death penalty is appropriate.
I see the Chinese are proclaiming their “humanity ” in letting his relatives visit him before he was executed.
It’s a pity that any such humanity couldn’t have been extended to spare this man’s life.