Hiya,
I’m an archaeologist working on a collection of WWII materiel dumped in Darwin Harbour in front of a Northern Territory RAAF base and we’ve recently pulled up two Browning .303 MK II aircraft machine guns. Neither are in great condition and both were covered in layers of hard marine growth and concretion. I’ve managed to clean them up a little and was wondering if anyone might be able to help narrow down ID at all? Basically if there’s any way of telling if these are wing or turret guns, and possibly even what types of aircraft they might have come from?
I’ve attached some photos (sorry they’re not best quality and I’ve haven’t been able to clear off all the marine growth on some areas without breaking things).
1) The first one has been almost entirely stripped and is missing the back plate and breech cover – the barrel / cooling jacket has also been bent. Has the rear bracket lugs and still has a copper alloy front mount bracket attached though. Also managed to get the serial # exposed – reads MK II / B 136.752 / B. I don’t know if the number helps with ID at all?
2) The second one is much more intact, has spade grips still attached and seems to be a different set-up, mounting arrangement? Also has a feed mechanism of some sort (?) and different cooling jacket and trunnion adaptor (?) Serial # on this one is MK II / B 868.881 / B. If anyone could also help ID the attachments on the second one, I’d much appreciate it (my MG knowledge is very limited!)
If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions or could recommend any good reference material, I’d very much appreciate it.
Thank you 🙂
Caroline
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By: CarolineW - 22nd July 2015 at 05:23
Hiya Flying Pencil,
Latest nice finds are some Pratt and Whitney twin wasp parts including lovely crankcase sections 🙂
Re. Cats at this site, far as I have been able to find out it was just PBY-5 variants, including PBY-5, -5A and PB2B-2. However, I’m also finding a few non-Cat parts, including a Spitfire fishtail exhaust and parts from a Bendix Upper Turret most likely from a B-24 or B-25. None of these make direct sense as there was no land based airstrip anywhere nearby and the maintenance unit was specifically a Flying Boat MU, but I’m figuring spare parts / used parts got mixed up in the post-war dumping processes. Maybe. So unfortunately it potentially widens the possibilities to any RAAF aircraft based in Darwin that had .303 machine guns. I’m trying to start up a list of those; will let you know when I get that sorted.
I’ve been wondering about the Cats and .30 cal guns. Far as I understand (which admittedly isn’t much), I would’ve thought the Cats would have US AN version .30 cal guns rather than the .303. I don’t know if they were ever swapped out though?
🙂
Steel parts survive very well in salt water, but not in fresh water. This was explained and shown by my Norwegian buddy who recovered aircraft from both types.
Finding more good bits in that bay, Caroline? 🙂
PBY used .303 in the tail “tunnel” and nose mount.
Go ahead and list all the aircraft known to be there, use the sub types (PBY-4, -5, -5a, -6a, etc)
Help us narrow down possibilities.
By: Flying_Pencil - 22nd July 2015 at 01:18
Survived very well for steel in salt water
Steel parts survive very well in salt water, but not in fresh water. This was explained and shown by my Norwegian buddy who recovered aircraft from both types.
Finding more good bits in that bay, Caroline? 🙂
PBY used .303 in the tail “tunnel” and nose mount.
Go ahead and list all the aircraft known to be there, use the sub types (PBY-4, -5, -5a, -6a, etc)
Help us narrow down possibilities.
By: CarolineW - 18th July 2015 at 03:10
It’s amazing how well they actually do survive. These two are intact though the metal is quite soft. But we also found a twin .50 cal mount and after peeling off the concretions they are rock solid and look good as new!
Survived very well for steel in salt water
By: CarolineW - 18th July 2015 at 03:09
You should see the bait I was using.
Ah ok, so spade grips = free mounted. Thank you! I’ll start searching along those lines.
These are proving to be quite curious. Found in amongst a lot of US parts; PBY Cats and Liberators. I thought maybe Spitfire as I’ve found one fishtail Spitfire exhaust. But based on the history, there shouldn’t have been anything but PBYs here as it was specifically a Flying Boat Base! Hmmm.
I’ll have a look see if there are some markings on the front mount. They are very challenging! Survived intact but the metal is actually quite soft.
Thanks again 🙂
That was an interesting fishing trip, Caroline. The second has the spade grips attached which means it is a free mounted, rather than a wing or turret gun. It could be from the rear cockpit of of a Vengence type aircraft, or possibly a beam/side gun from something bigger: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~maav/vulteelightbox/vulteelightbox.html
There could be a part number on the front mount of the first gun, the mountings varied with aircraft types. They look a challenging clean!
By: Junk Collector - 17th July 2015 at 11:11
Survived very well for steel in salt water
By: ian_ - 17th July 2015 at 09:54
That was an interesting fishing trip, Caroline. The second has the spade grips attached which means it is a free mounted, rather than a wing or turret gun. It could be from the rear cockpit of of a Vengence type aircraft, or possibly a beam/side gun from something bigger: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~maav/vulteelightbox/vulteelightbox.html
There could be a part number on the front mount of the first gun, the mountings varied with aircraft types. They look a challenging clean!
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July 17, 2015 at 3:56 am