BRS …… 1ST February 2009

Thank you very much Huw

I love learning but its just taking me a wee while and a few set backs along the way 🙂

Im a big fan of your work you photo’s are brilliant

Rob
🙂

I do like those first two shots, can get some lovely backdrops at Bristol:) Jid’s tutorials are great too, and have taught me a great deal. We all have the ability to learn, it takes time thats all. I was useless a year ago, now I’ve got nearly 350 photos on JetPhotos and when comparing my old photos with my new ones, I’m pleased to see the leap in quality!

All the best Rob:)
Cheers, Huw:)

Thanks for the links GA, very useful indeed.:)
Sorry to hear you did not have a productive day yesterday.

Thanks for you contribution Dan

An thanks Grey for those Tutorials

Ive never seen the one by Jid and it looks awesome so im gonna give that good going over and Next time i go up the airport ill go when the sun is out and the skies are Blue…..

Cause i do believe that alot of the trouble with my pics above are due to that fact that the weather was so poor and that it was my first time with a DSLR i really do listen to people’s advice.

and i hope people dont think im some kind of Arrogant Person cause im not.

Thanks again
Rob
🙂

Rob, you should listen to what Paul says. He may be getting a little irate, but he certainly knows what he’s talking about. I’ve taken some great advice from him in the past, and I’m sure you will too.

Moderator Message

Right.

This is becoming tiresome now.

Whenever we post pictures on an Internet forum such as this, we invite comment and criticism of them.

Sometimes the comments will not be to our liking, because life’s like that.

Public whinging or moaning about constructive criticism is not a effective strategy for improving one’s skills and abilities.

The pictures posted in this thread are unsharp and do appear under-exposed to a greater or lesser degree, whether the photographer likes it or not.

Only you can do something about this. Either you can stick your head in the sand, or you can learn from the experience and knowledge of some of the superb aviation photographers out there.

A good starting point would be the “Photography Tips” and “Photoshop Tips” sections of the Prime Images website, or Jid Webb’s excellent workflow.

And the rest of you can give the lad a break now. We all started from the same place, after all.

(Says the man who’s just binned every single shot from a day at Heathrow yesterday.) 😮

Be Nice

GA

Hi Sam

Thats where people Mistake me … yes i can take negative Feedback but when its from the same person all the time who expects me to be something im just not yet then i cant win can i

on another site a member gave me negative feedback and i took it on board
Maybe there are certain ways of putting things like for example:

I dont think these are my best shots … i need to learn alot more …. maybe buying An SLR was abit to early.

Not i dont listen and i make people take all year and countless msn convo’s i think thats a little personal really
lets be professional and give professional advice not personal attacks.

As for cloud’s commet i totally agree … The Manual gives you great info on how to work the camera i.e settings but dosent tell you what to do with it in terms of shooting Your subject.

I think we have all said our piece and yes maybe i need to learn to accept negative feedback ….. Anyway my photo’s are rubbish im my worst critic … and maybe when the sun shines they are alittle better but still rubbish even tho ive got 31 photos accepted on jetphotos and 5 photos accepted on Airliners.net.

You’re being really rather childish about this now, Rob. At no point have I been personal in the slightest and to say I have is ridiculous. “Personal attacks”? Come off it. Believe me, you’d know about it if I were making personal attacks but I’m just not that kind of a person. I wouldn’t have praised three photos in your thread if I’d been hell bent on making you feel crap. Again, you have to accept that people won’t always say ‘great shots’ and if you open your mind up to it and stop being so damned defensive, you’ll realise you actually often learn more from criticism than you do from praise. Especially false praise.

Let’s continue this on MSN if we need to. It’s wasting bandwidth now!

Paul

Also, I don’t feel that you have really answered my main question…what process do you normally go through?

The process is learn good technique, make the photo as good as it can be straight out of the camera, crop, adjust exposure according to what the histogram tells you, add saturation, re-size and sharpen. Simply put, that’s how you do it but saying it like that means absolutely nothing, and that’s why I didn’t say it like that. I can’t just write something here that will instantly make you take JP standard photos because I don’t know how much you already know, which is why we need to go through things step by step over MSN. That way it’s easy to concentrate on the areas that need it.

Just give me a shout on MSN sometime. I’m unlikely to be doing anything other than screening over the next few days so I should have some free time to go through a few things. 🙂

Paul

Rob, take it easy – Paul is just trying to help. You don’t improve if people are telling you that you’re shots are amazing when theres a few problems with them… If you don’t accept critism of you’re never going to improve.

Chin up and just keeps practicing.

Hi Sam

Thats where people Mistake me … yes i can take negative Feedback but when its from the same person all the time who expects me to be something im just not yet then i cant win can i

on another site a member gave me negative feedback and i took it on board
Maybe there are certain ways of putting things like for example:

I dont think these are my best shots … i need to learn alot more …. maybe buying An SLR was abit to early.

Not i dont listen and i make people take all year and countless msn convo’s i think thats a little personal really
lets be professional and give professional advice not personal attacks.

As for cloud’s commet i totally agree … The Manual gives you great info on how to work the camera i.e settings but dosent tell you what to do with it in terms of shooting Your subject.

I think we have all said our piece and yes maybe i need to learn to accept negative feedback ….. Anyway my photo’s are rubbish im my worst critic … and maybe when the sun shines they are alittle better but still rubbish even tho ive got 31 photos accepted on jetphotos and 5 photos accepted on Airliners.net.

Rob, take it easy – Paul is just trying to help. You don’t improve if people are telling you that you’re shots are amazing when theres a few problems with them… If you don’t accept critism of you’re never going to improve.

Chin up and just keeps practicing.

…All of this information is readily accessible, it just takes a while for it all to sink in but once it’s there it will help you immensely.

This might sound daft Paul, but where is this information readily accessible, as I cant seem to find it?

Like Rob, I have read the manual to my camera several times already, but all it tells you is what to do with your camera when using the different settings, it does not give you the knowledge of how to create so-called “technically correct” images, that may or may not be accepted by JP or A.net?

Also, I don’t feel that you have really answered my main question…what process do you normally go through?

Now you’ve had your camera for a few weeks, feel free to drop me a message on MSN. I should be around for the first half of the week. 🙂

Thanks, but its probably best if you initiate first contact through MSN, as I always seem to catch you at a bad/busy time…lol.:(

Ok fair enought Paul

Im sorry if you feel like i wasted your time and wont do that again

Some people are different then others .. some take longer and others are quicker

As for not Listening well thats not true

The problem with you Paul is your taking it abit to far … you need to sit back a chill more …..

All i said was that your photos was not at there normal standard in your post in fact some were very soft …. but thats the weather for you and like you said in that post its good to practice in bad weather.

so maybe when its clear skys i can turn my F-STOP to F8 and put my ISO to 100 and then shoot away…..

You just got to give me more time and let me try and do it the way i want to.

But i think this should end now cause there is no point Starting something massive you made your point and ive made mine!

I’m perfectly chilled, Rob. I’m annoyed, but I’m chilled. One last point… I don’t know what you’re looking at when you say some of the images you’re referring to are “very soft” but they’re not the same ones I’m looking at. :confused:

Anyway, I shall say no more.

Paul

Ok fair enought Paul

Im sorry if you feel like i wasted your time and wont do that again

Some people are different then others .. some take longer and others are quicker

As for not Listening well thats not true

The problem with you Paul is your taking it abit to far … you need to sit back a chill more …..

All i said was that your photos was not at there normal standard in your post in fact some were very soft …. but thats the weather for you and like you said in that post its good to practice in bad weather.

so maybe when its clear skys i can turn my F-STOP to F8 and put my ISO to 100 and then shoot away…..

You just got to give me more time and let me try and do it the way i want to.

But i think this should end now cause there is no point Starting something massive you made your point and ive made mine!

Paul what you need to remember is that its was overcast , dark , windy and freezing ….. also my first time with the new camera

and if you look back to your post

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85297

you will see that your photos there arent as good as they normally are and you have all the experience.

so try and take that in to account before you start saying i dont listen which in your words were ” countless msn convo’s and stuff you have been telling me all year”

Bad weather = bad photos you know that

Rob

Bad weather does not equal bad photos, Rob. If it did, the vast majority of images in the thread you’ve quoted wouldn’t have made it onto JP. I’m more than happy to help people out if I can (and many people know that) but I don’t want my time wasted.

You have to accept that when you ask for advice, you really do need to listen to what people say. You also have to accept that when you post photos you open yourself up to comments that may be both good and bad. Not everyone will say ‘great shots’, and saying so when it isn’t actually true means nothing. When someone who’s dedicated hours and hours of his time to trying to help you says something, you should listen and take their comments on board. To turn round to someone more experienced than you and try tell them what it’s like to shoot in less than ideal conditions is just ridiculous. I’ve been very lucky to have been advised by some wonderful photographers and to this day I’m grateful for the help they gave me. I’m a huge believer that knowledge should be passed on; that’s why I spend so much time trying to help people out, including you, but every single person I’ve helped has made very clear improvements in a matter of months as I did with the kind help of people like Dan Nicholson, Mark Winterborne and Grey Area (Lance). Had I ignored the advice they gave me, learning what I know now would have taken much, much longer as I wouldn’t have had a head start to get over the initial hurdles (which are often the most difficult to overcome).

I wish you all the very best with your new camera and with photography, Rob. I genuinely do, but as much as you don’t think you’ve ignored what I’ve said, you have, and you’ve ignored what others have said as well. That is the only reason I’m a little annoyed.

Cloud_9… Getting photos accepted onto sites like Jetphotos is basically a case of knowing what it is they want and then learning enough that you can get that consistently. Aviation photography to sites like JP is a type of photography that has to be technically correct; uploading a photo with an obvious flaw (soft, dark, etc) and saying you intended it to be like that won’t get a photo accepted, so a decent degree of technical understanding with regard to how your camera actually works and the relationships between things like ISO and shutter speed is invaluable. All of this information is readily accessible, it just takes a while for it all to sink in but once it’s there it will help you immensely.

Now you’ve had your camera for a few weeks, feel free to drop me a message on MSN. I should be around for the first half of the week. 🙂

Paul

I’m going to be a little negative here, Rob, but hopefuly it won’t be taken too badly!

The first two shots and the one of G-EZAM are good, but the rest of them could have been taken with your old Fuji and I wouldn’t have known any different bar the fact they’d have had more noise. This is exactly what I’ve tried to say in countless MSN conversations… Without good technique and a certain degree of technical knowledge the equipment you have is almost of no consequence whatsoever. All the flaws that existed before are still there, despite now having a very good and capable camera. The only way to improve now is to do what I’ve been suggesting you do for the last year and learn the technical ins and outs of your camera. It’s a lot to take in. It really is and it takes a long time to learn and get used to but it really is the only way you’ll improve. I’ve said countless times your photos won’t look the same as mine or other peoples just because you have the same camera, and this shows my point.

If you’re happy doing what you do then by all means continue as you are, but if you really do want to improve then you have to learn more about how your camera works. There’s no short path to it unfortunately but believe me, every hour you spend learning will give you infinite enjoyment when you start to see the results. So come on… Let’s see some real improvements! 🙂

Paul

Paul what you need to remember is that its was overcast , dark , windy and freezing ….. also my first time with the new camera

and if you look back to your post

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85297

you will see that your photos there arent as good as they normally are and you have all the experience.

so try and take that in to account before you start saying i dont listen which in your words were ” countless msn convo’s and stuff you have been telling me all year”

Bad weather = bad photos you know that

Rob

Thanks Rich And Steve 🙂

Thanks Paul

And thanks cloud i guess i just love to take photos and post them and see what people think but hey you cant get people to like them all the time
Just wish like you said i knew what process to take … it dont say that in the manual

Thanks again
Rob

The first two shots and the one of G-EZAM are good, but the rest of them could have been taken with your old Fuji and I wouldn’t have known any different…There’s no short path to it unfortunately but believe me, every hour you spend learning will give you infinite enjoyment

As critical as Paul is being here Rob, I do agree with what he says. He’s just being cruel to be kind in a way…so try not to take it too negatively.

I must say that I have recently switched from a Fuji S5700 to a Canon EOS 450D, and although I have seen an improvement in terms of the quality of the images, primarily due to the increase in no. of pixels, I am still trying to get use to using the new equipment; hence why I have decided not to post any pics up on here just yet as I am still developing my knowledge and skills.

Good on you for braving the freezing conditions though, hope you wrapped up well!;)

If you’re happy doing what you do then by all means continue as you are, but if you really do want to improve then you have to learn more about how your camera works.

Paul, I know you are probably really busy with other things at the moment, but if/when you get some spare time, could you please perhaps try to explain to other forum members (i.e. me!) some of the basic processes that you would normally go through in order to be able to take decent photos and also the level of quality that is required to get photos accepted on websites such as Airliners.net as I have heard that the people who approve the pictures on sites like these can be quite picky when it comes to accepting images.

Any advice/info would be much appreciated.:)

I’m going to be a little negative here, Rob, but hopefuly it won’t be taken too badly!

The first two shots and the one of G-EZAM are good, but the rest of them could have been taken with your old Fuji and I wouldn’t have known any different bar the fact they’d have had more noise. This is exactly what I’ve tried to say in countless MSN conversations… Without good technique and a certain degree of technical knowledge the equipment you have is almost of no consequence whatsoever. All the flaws that existed before are still there, despite now having a very good and capable camera. The only way to improve now is to do what I’ve been suggesting you do for the last year and learn the technical ins and outs of your camera. It’s a lot to take in. It really is and it takes a long time to learn and get used to but it really is the only way you’ll improve. I’ve said countless times your photos won’t look the same as mine or other peoples just because you have the same camera, and this shows my point.

If you’re happy doing what you do then by all means continue as you are, but if you really do want to improve then you have to learn more about how your camera works. There’s no short path to it unfortunately but believe me, every hour you spend learning will give you infinite enjoyment when you start to see the results. So come on… Let’s see some real improvements! 🙂

Paul

Great shots Rob!!!

Nice Pictures Rob! 🙂