Bullfighting

There is a major difference in the treatment of the animals in question. Animals bred for food are first stunned not always competantly but, the effort is made, unless you belong to one of the minority religious groups who, in this context appear to be outside the scope of our veterinary laws.

Hi John, I think that will change at somepoint ,i think it is Denmark that is banning it now http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562350/Denmark-accused-anti-Semitism-bans-religious-slaughter-animals-kosher-halal-meat.html hopefully it will catch on here as well.

Hi All,
While all the above as far as I am concerned are sadistically cruel you have to remember this has been their custom in whichever country you visit and has it root’s back to the Pagan history when ritual slaughter was the norm. It doesn’t matter what we the tourists or immigrants think it will continue yet despite this you would have thought in this day and age all country’s would be more enlightened.

Geoff.

Re 19

The thought did cross my mind that you wouldn’t agree.

Animal welfare in Britain can and does leave a lot to be desired, but there is no way on earth that they can be compared with the way the Spanish can (and do) treat their fiesta animals.

Pause for a moment and start thinking. You might be ranting about something different. I’m ranting about animal welfare, which is, in essence, what this subject is about.

There is a major difference in the treatment of the animals in question. Animals bred for food are first stunned not always competantly but, the effort is made, unless you belong to one of the minority religious groups who, in this context appear to be outside the scope of our veterinary laws.

So, where then is the similarity between Spansh practices (not the usual meaning of that phrase) and our own much more cosy system of animal death. It is this. Animals brought to the slaughter house to be ultimately made into sauseges (yummy) know even before they leave the trucks that transported them, that they are going to their deaths. How so?

By their otherwise aberrant behaviour; behaviour that substantially deviates from the norm. They bellow continuously; their eyes roll; they are reluctant to move in the queue, shuffling to the doors of the factory where burly men in blood spattered aprons with sharp knives lie in wait. In many animals, the stress engendered is reflected in the quality of the meat.

It is smply a question of attempting to quantify the degree of terror and stress reflected in the two opposing situations described. The deaths of one group of animals is organised and industrialised and just as steeped in terror as the gleeful savagery meted out to the unfortunates in Spain.

Are you trying to shock me or repel me or what? I have no doubt that there are appalling horrors still committed by humans to other humans of which I/we are unaware. So buried in the sand? If you say so.

No, not shock or repel – not even excite you not matter what you think. BUT you asked if the stories had been corroborated, and unless these pictures are all fake then do you consider them to corroborate the stories?

Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell the blood of double standards accompanied by more than a whiff of hypocrisy.

Either that or flatulence – but since it turned up with you and I know its not me…;o)

When we cease to rear and slaughter animals for food then my sympathies for the bull and such like will grow exponentially. If you have witnessed the mental stress and terror exhibited by animals penned and queueing to be killed you would possibly never pass a sliver of dead animal carcass down your throat ever again.

Unfortunately for your argument this is nothing to do with food but the pleasure in torture and the ability to bully things that are not as far along the evolutionary chain as us.

So, we need to look at our own behaviour before condemning the barbaric practices of Spain and other countries. The cruelty implicit in these practices although of a different variety, is on par with the farming of meat for food. There are alternatives that carry little or no stigma.

Our own practices? Like fox hunting maybe, “the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible” according to Oscar Wilde. But then again fox hunting is done by the ‘upper classes’ and their hangers-on, all good right wing types. And of course the people who operate farms, slaughter houses, factories, etc, are also bound to be to the right (and further) of centre politically.
But there is the slaughter of animals for consumption and there is the slaughter of animals just for kicks: the difference between the legal execution of a murderer by the law and the actions of a psychopath who enjoys venting his power over those who have less power before killing them. Animals produced for food are going to die; they are killed as humanely as possible whereas those killed FOR FUN IN SPAIN are stabbed and burned and thrown from heights and kicked and trampled and drowned in what must be described as most a inhumane way to be killed – there is really no comparison between the two.

John,Killing for food in what i hope is a more humane manner [although i know animal welfare differs all over ] is a different matter to killing for a ceremony and fun.Killing for food has happened since animals hunted animals and humans hunted animals.The difference is that we now require so much food demand outstrips supply.

Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell the blood of double standards accompanied by more than a whiff of hypocrisy.

When we cease to rear and slaughter animals for food then my sympathies for the bull and such like will grow exponentially. If you have witnessed the mental stress and terror exhibited by animals penned and queueing to be killed you would possibly never pass a sliver of dead animal carcass down your throat ever again.

So, we need to look at our own behaviour before condemning the barbaric practices of Spain and other countries. The cruelty implicit in these practices although of a different variety, is on par with the farming of meat for food. There are alternatives that carry little or no stigma.

Are you trying to shock me or repel me or what? I have no doubt that there are appalling horrors still committed by humans to other humans of which I/we are unaware. So buried in the sand? If you say so.

You think somebody made all that up??? Guess if you live with your head buried in the sand you won’t have heard of that sort of thing, but its not difficult to find out.
Tell you what, how about a few images?

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Throwing a goat from the church tower in Manganeses de la Polvorosa
Recent throws have been into a blanket, but then again the drop is 50ft so…

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Drowning a bull after a blood fiesta

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Donkey in the blood fiesta at Villanueva
Ridden by a fat drunk man and stabbed by fiesta-goers, the donkey dies either from the abuse or just after.

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Spanish hunting dogs (galgos) being killed at the end of the season
Rather than look after the dogs the hunters allow them to die by the cheapest and generally most painful methods that give them entertainment.

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A goose about to be beheaded in El Carpio de Tajo

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Caballos por la Lumbre festival in Castilla y León
Riding horses about in the flames, usually leaving the horse with burns to hooves, ears, face and tail.

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a fire bull at Medinaceli
A tar-filled device is attached to the bulls horns and it is allowed to charge around the town, its ears and head burning. Sometimes wet mud is put on the bull, but it does not provide much protection.

They say seeing is believing. Believe it now?

Amusing? No, not to me. Do you find it amusing?

Presumably the information supplied by this charitable foundation has been corroborated.

Presumably the Spanish, hardly a backward third world people, do not regard their sport as you have described it.

Until Franco died the people were (relatively speaking, and using your words) backward; the structure to modernise was not there because the dictator was happy to keep his people under his thumb. The older Spanish kept the festivals of old and this included abusing animals:

How about the Toro De La Vega, a cruel and bloody Spanish festival which takes place in the streets of Tordesillas?

A Bull is chased through the streets and over a bridge in the town by in excess of one hundred men and youths armed with sharp lances. Once over the bridge, the animal is attacked by the men thrusting their lances in to him.

The Bull tries desperately to get away from this agonising torture, but the poor animal has lances repeatedly plunged in to him until his flesh is torn so badly, and he is bleeding so heavily, that he can eventually go no further.

On his collapse, his testicles are cut off, often while he is still alive. This is all watched by rowdy and cheering crowds. This spectacle in this Spanish festival is considered suitable entertainment for the whole family, with many parents taking their children. This horrific tradition in Spanish Festivals was illegal for years, but, incredibly, it was again legalised in 1999!

http://www.animal-rights-action.com/spanish-festivals.html

How about The Pero Palo Festival in Villanueva de la Vera, Spain?

Every year, a terrified donkey is violently forced through the streets of the village of Villanueva de la Vera in Spain, surrounded by drunk, rowdy, young men.

The Spanish Festivals organisaers and the men think it is great fun to beat, kick, bite, shove, drag and crush the terrified donkey, as they all laugh as it is done. The animal regularly collapses from exhaustion and fright, only to be forced back to its feet by violence from the mob of drunken men.

Guns are fired close to the panicked animal, alcohol is forced down it’s throat and it is ridden by the heaviest men in the village.

The ordeal often leaves the donkey badly injured or crushed to death. After this mental and physical torture has finally ended, the shattered and traumatised donkey is forced in to a trailer and taken away to meet an unknown fate.

Animal charity campaigners, who work at the only donkey sanctuary in Spain, were refused when they asked if their vet could check the donkey over after the festival.

A member of the charity, Jose Rodriguez Gil, said “”When I tried to film the donkey I was repeatedly threatened. They knew very well that what they were doing was cruel.”

Another donkey sanctuary worker commented about how he had been punched, kicked and spat on by the crowd during his attempts to protect the Villanueva donkeys.

A spokesman for Villanueva de la Vera and the region’s tourism department said: “We will not bow to pressure from animal welfare activists. This is our tradition and that will continue.”

http://www.animal-rights-action.com/spanish-festivals.html

Or…

The Tradition In Spain Of Hanging Spanish Galgos

The Galgo is a Spanish Greyhound used by hunters in Spain. It is traditional in Spain at the end of the hunting season for the hunters to cause their dogs a very slow and torturous death, as they do not want to look after them after hunting season.

Sadly, this tradition is still very much alive and 50,000 dogs can face these fates in Spain at the end of each hunting season.

Below: Clockwise From Top Left:
[IMAGES NOT COPIED – GO TO THE WEBSITE IF YOU NEED TO SEE THEM]
The sickening and very common tradition of Spanish hunters hanging their Galgos at the end of the hunting season, making them endure a terrifying and torturous death. The terror and suffering can be seen on the face of this poor Galgo.

As shown, hunters wedge sticks in the dogs’ mouths so they cannot eat or drink and die a slow, painful death.

Dogs can be killed by being dragged along the ground behind their speeding trucks, such as the dog in this picture that was skinned and had bones broken in the process.

This Galgo was killed by being burned alive – a unimaginably painful death.

Other common methods of the hunters killing their Galgos include throwing them down deep, disused wells that they have no hope of getting out of.

There, they starve to death, alone and frightened. This is an unbelievably cruel and drawn out death.

Other hunters beat their dogs to death, shoot them or use any other method that does not cost them money.

http://www.animal-rights-action.com/spanish-festivals.html

Meanwhile…

Blood Fiestas

Blood Fiestas involve the systematic torture and/or killing of animals for entertainment and as such should be stopped.

Where Blood Fiestas take place
Blood Fiestas take place in many villages throughout Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Brazil etc. each year.

The animals used
The vast majority use cattle; Bulls, cows and calves from the bullfighting herds.

Blood Fiestas with cattle are classified as bullfighting.

In the case of Spain, Bullfighting and Blood Fiestas are promoted and regulated under their National Bullfighting Law.

The number of Blood Fiestas (in Spain)
At least ten thousand but up to 20 thousand or more Blood Fiestas take place.

The villages are supposed to obtain a license to hold a Blood Fiesta. This is to ensure that various crowd safety rules are complied with or that the village has sufficient accident insurance etc. and this all costs money. Therefore there are a number of unlicensed fiestas.

Consequently it is impossible to get an accurate figure and all figures have to be guessed at. The figure of 15,000 has been quoted in the Spanish national press but it has also been quoted that there are 2,000 fire bulls in the Province of Valencia alone.

The worst of all the fiestas for cruelty are those using cows, bulls or calves.

A cow, calf or bull used in a blood fiesta can die from stabbing, strangulation, spearing, and multiple injuries. It can be thrown down from a height, deliberately and repeatedly knocked down by a car or tractor, or drowned.

Before it dies it can suffer rape by sticks or metal spikes, live castration, have its horns, tails and ears ripped off, be blinded or burned.

It’s torture can last to up to five hours.

Other Animals used
After cattle, chickens were the next most used creatures in Blood Fiestas, but since 2003 this has changed as all chicken fiestas have now ceased. A few other animals are also used such as pigs, geese, ducks, donkeys, squirrels, rabbits, pigeons etc.

Chickens were hung by their feet from a rope, and decapitated by either a sword, which was often blunt and the chicken was not killed immediately or they had their heads pulled off manually.

Another variation on this was to bury the birds in a box or in the earth with just their heads sticking up, then they were beaten to death or their heads hacked off with swords.

Ducks had their wings clipped and are thrown into a river or the sea and dozens of swimmers try to catch them. The birds can be pulled apart in the tug of war.

Geese are strung up by their feet and have their heads pulled off manually.

Pigeons and squirrels are placed in earthenware pots and suspended from a very high pole, the pots are stoned until they break and the birds and animals fall out alive or dead.

The most famous goat fiesta is that of Manganeses de la Polvorosa where a goat was thrown from a church tower. If a goat survived the ordeal, it was killed and eaten afterwards. There many protests, also Ministry of the Interior orders forbidding the fiesta, but the village defied them and the practise continued until January 2000. [BANNED 2002, ALTHOUGH ONE WAS THROWN FROM THE TOWER THIS YEAR]

The most notorious donkey fiesta is at Villanueva de la Vera where Vicki managed to get two donkeys out, the famous Blackie and another donkey called José.

The animal used in 1986, was killed by drowning it in the village fountain.

No donkey has been killed since then, but the animal always has a bad ordeal in the hour and a half it is on the streets.

Pigs are greased and set loose to be caught by crowds of men, the animal is nearly always badly injured in the struggle and sometimes they are pulled and crushed so badly they literally burst.

Some have been stopped
Due to pressure from animal rights groups such as FAACE (Fight Against Animal Cruelty in Europe), ANPBA Asociación Nacional para la Protección y el Bienestar de los Animales and IAC (INITAITIVE ANTI-CORRIDA) and new laws, villages have abandoned chicken fiestas and now use metal/splastic chickens or no chickins.

Do not attend any of these fiestas and if you do inadvertently see one complain to the local and national authorities about them.

http://www.vickimoorefoundation.org/content/bloodfiestas.php

So you can see that, in a European apparently first world country, animals are still tortured and abused for entertainment by the Spanish. Isn’t that amusing?

There are some that come to their senses. I’d check up on this Matador’s story… It’s quite touching I must say…

I’ve always been strongly against Bull Fighting, or any other forms of Animal cruelty for that matter. I reserve a special kind of hatred for anyone that intentionally and sadistically harms any Animal, it’s uncalled for and I have no other words to describe what is felt.

However, there are those rare moments where the Bull gets it’s Revenge which is, hilariously satisfying…

Snafu – I should have rephrased it. I would tend to criticise what I know about and have experience of. Presumably the Spanish, hardly a backward third world people, do not regard their sport as you have described it.

But if that’s what the Spanish do then who am I to criticise?

You are Charlie and if we were to look back then we are bound to find many examples of you criticising…

As for the Spanish, why should it be acceptable that they can torture a bull to death in a slow and painful manner and be allowed to call it sport? If they did it with horses rather than bulls there would be revolution in the country, but they seem to tolerate it if they aren’t all out in favour.
In Britain we used to bait bulls with dogs, stage dog fights and c0ck fights, all for the sake of entertainment which has long been banned. We used to pretend that the fox enjoyed being chased by hounds and wealthy inbreds before being torn to pieces (if it was caught) and this too was thankfully banned.
In a world where we regard ourselves as the highest form of intelligence why do we let ourselves be dragged down to the mono’d-brow knuckledraggers level by proclaiming that these acts were/are an acceptable thing to inflict on other species?

Can’t say I have strong feelings either way, never having attended an event. But if that’s what the Spanish do then who am I to criticise?

Who is going to make the rule – the Spanish? Can’t see the bulls getting together and going on strike for better working conditions…

If they make a rule that says if the bull wins he goes free I’ll support it.
Better odds than going to the slaughter house.
BTW I’m just settling down to Sunday lunch. Roast beef anyone?

http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Practical/Entertainment/BullfightersRemorse.htm