Welcome to the Burma expedition news thread. If you have a genuine interest in the project you will find future updates here. There are of course no guarantees that the project will uncover the rumoured buried cache of WWII spitfires, however work progresses steadily.
Whilst work is on-going at the current area of interest at the project site, it may be some time before further news emerges.
By: Moggy C - 11th June 2016 at 09:40
Excellent summary.
I hope Mark 12 will be pleased that I give him the last word on this until some more actual news is forthcoming.
Moggy
By: Mark12 - 11th June 2016 at 09:12
As we move in to the final phase…a re-cap.
Anybody with just a casual interest in old aircraft could not fail to have been aware of the world-wide press interest in the tale of the ‘Buried Spitfires in Burma’ and the quest of Lincolnshire farmer David Cundall to recover them. The story started to pick up pace through 2012 and reached a crescendo in January 2013.
At its peak in excess of 70 news agencies and sources were covering the story in every corner of the globe. Each successive report seemed to draw on previous words and add a little extra spin and enhancement. Only Adam Lusher, of the UK’s Daily Telegraph, had the comprehensive inside story.
Looking back through the ‘rumour’ diary, it is noted that on 13 August 1997 David Cundall discussed in confidence views on a report he had of twelve Mk XIV Spitfires buried at or near Mingaladon airfield, the WWII base just north of Rangoon.
The story started with a report from noted wreckfinder Jim Pearce that a WWII US airfield construction engineer, a ‘Seabee’, had advised him in 1974 that their unit had been tasked to help bury a number of Spitfires in crates for the RAF in Burma at the end of hostilities in 1945. Mingaladon was one of the suggested locations.
Following up the 26 year old rumour in 2000, in Florida, David Cundall was to find that Pearce’s ‘Seabee’ had passed away, but a fellow engineer and family friend recalled the burials and advised that they buried many aircraft at various sites, including eighteen examples at Myitkyina, in the US ‘Zone’, in northern Burma.
As the ‘secret’ was already now well established in the aviation enthusiast domain, David Cundall put adverts out in FlyPast Magazine and the Rangoon local press for witnesses to the burials. Stanley Coombe of the Royal Berkshire Regiment had full recall of the event and came forward.
When he had told his story locally of seeing crates parked up on the Prome Road in the intervening years, he felt it was dismissed as a ‘silly old boy’s yarn’. Old pals Harry Keat and Maurice Gardiner, an armourer and a radio technician with 273 Squadron operating Spitfires out of Mingaladon, had left Burma for Singapore with the main ground party before the ‘burials’, but when their squadron mates, the rear party, later arrived at Singapore they were full of the story of the buried Spitfires.
Airman Maurice Short, later a Group Captain, had also heard the same story at this time. The Rangoon press appeals bought forward a local whose father’s cart, he claimed, had been used to bring timber to the said burial site.
Requests by David Cundall for a visa and digging rights were stalled until 2007, but the political situation beyond that time meant that it would be a further five years before serious digging permissions would be granted.
With the thawing of the political situation and democratic reforms being introduced in Myanmar, on a visit in April 2012, British Prime Minister David Cameron was able to bring up the subject of buried Spitfires with Myanmar’s President, Thein Sein. It was met with a warm response from the Burmese, and, indeed, there were to be several applications from other parties for the license to dig on the Spitfires.
With financial backing from Belarusian businessman Victor Kislyi, David Cundall was to be the successful applicant, winning a two year license to dig on four sites signed off in October 2012.
Kislyi, CEO of Wargaming.net, put up a reported $1 million to fund the expedition and make a documentary. In his own words, he has no desire to own any of the potential Spitfire finds. For him this was to be an ‘Indiana Jones’ story, a ‘Raiders of the lost Spitfires’ if you like. The world-wide publicity for his Wargaming.net empire would be reward enough for him, a story he could weave in to his future activities. It was to be the story of the search, whether Spitfires were found or not, that most interested him.
On 5 January 2013 a party of twenty-one – sponsors, management, geophysicists, archaeologists and the film crew – set off for Yangon. A local Burmese consultant, the Shwe Taung Por Group, had prepared the way for excavation in an optimal time window: after Christmas, but before the onset of the monsoon rains in May. JCB was to sponsor the mechanical plant to excavate the site. The world-wide TV and press corps reported accordingly at an initial press conference.
Digging commenced on the first day of the second week on site at the direction of the geophysicists and the archaeologists. Little was found save for a wooden post, a piece of pierced steel planking, former runway material, and a large bolt.
It did not bode well. By the afternoon of the second day’s digging, the trench, which was as close as 60 metres or so from the main runway, was down to what was deemed to be 1945 level…and there was nothing of note to report.
At this point a senior Myanmar government official arrived and pronounced that digging was to stop forthwith, as it was too dangerous and too close to the main runway, and also that the airfield infrastructure (buried electrical cables, etc.) were at risk. Light digging could continue, however, for a few days, but only at night, beyond the hours of airport flying operations.
This was a major ‘show-stopper’, as clearly there would be little to report at the major press conference scheduled for the following weekend.
With the gathering press corps and the arrival of Fergal Keane and crew from the BBC, the sponsor’s management team decided to cancel the conference and make a statement. Their position was that on the strength of their archival research in the UK and their excavations and geophysics work on site, there were, in fact, no buried Spitfires in all of Burma, and they would be dispersing the team.
Not surprisingly, David Cundall was unwilling to make such a statement to the BBC, and the task fell to the archaeologists, some of whom considered David Cundall to be a fantasist.
Undeterred, David Cundall remained in Burma until well into March 2013 before returning to the UK for visa renewal and to attend to domestic duties.
One of the major problems on site has been trying to correlate the current geography of the airfield with the reports of the eyewitnesses. Over the intervening sixty-plus years the whole airfield had changed, with only two hangars and a taxiway from the former main runway remaining from the wartime landscape. The post-war modern jet runway was laid over the existing three runway system, and on a completely different compass orientation. Lumps and bumps that were no problem for a DC-3 or a Spitfire were graded over. Upwards of 3 to 5 metres of spoil now covered the original area leading into a drainage gulley, one site where the aircraft were thought to be buried and where February 1947 air photo images show apparent major earth and structure displacement.
In June 2013 Wargaming.net made a major presentation on the Burma Spitfire Dig at the prestigious RAF Museum at Hendon, London. Under the banner ‘Warbirds into Woks’, and embracing CSI (Crime Scene Investigation) principles, an array of technical specialists, geophysicists, and archaeologists, led by Andy Brockman, exuded high confidence in their conclusion that there were no buried Spitfires at Mingaladon or, for that matter, anywhere else in Burma.
They quoted a lack of official documentation; the state of the rail, road and docks infrastructure; the lack of basic materials, tools and equipment to do the job…and, indeed, a lack of Spitfire airframes to bury. There were no Means, no Motive and no Opportunity. Technical graphics of the geophysics results were displayed during the lecture.
Significantly, at this presentation no mention was made of the fact that digging had been suspended after less than two days, yet their minimal excavation did not stop Wargaming from issuing a “no buried Spitfires in all of Burma” pronouncement.
Per Andy Brockman, a full technical report was in the process of being written, its publication claimed as imminent. A TV documentary would also be forthcoming, and, perhaps unwisely from the Wargaming perspective, the whole of the presentation would be made accessible to all on YouTube.
This video public offering on the Internet, announced with great fanfare, enabled objective freeze-frame analysis of details that were impossible to ascertain in the rapidly-flowing live RAF Museum performance. A very close dissection of the YouTube presentation immediately started to throw up major inconsistencies and errors, not the least of which was the revelation by a professional geospatial analyst that the Wargaming experts’ fundamental comprehension of the geographic landscape was deeply flawed.
Yet they based all of their digging decisions on their erroneous interpretations, against the protests of an exasperated David Cundall.
Wargaming’s then-versus-now overlays of wartime and 1947 photo reconnaissance imagery atop modern satellite imagery was found to be alarmingly inaccurate in terms of both scale and position. Based upon Wargaming’s RAF Museum graphics, locations where they thought they were digging compared to where they were actually digging differed by over 100 metres, to as much as 220 metres. Their flawed methodology doomed them to failure.
It also transpired that no digging had been attempted to the west of an original Prome Road segment that had been consumed by the wartime main runway’s extension, begun by the Japanese in 1944 and completed by the British by late 1945. (The road was rerouted around the extension.) Based upon the eyewitness account of veteran Stanley Coombe, a specific area west of the intersection of the old Prome Road alignment and the extended runway was a pre-stated prime ‘target rich’ area, this per Andy Brockman, yet geospatial analysis of Wargaming’s RAF Museum presentation graphics revealed that they dug nowhere near this intended target zone.
Subsequent to the Museum presentation, and after repeated delays, Wargaming’s long-awaited Technical Report was finally issued in March 2015, more than two years after their Mingaladon dig, and twenty months after Andy Brockman had proclaimed its “forthcoming” publication. Furthermore, the TV documentary was shelved and some might wonder why. The variances between the Wargaming-claimed facts and graphics, as touted at the RAF Museum in June 2013 and beyond, compared with their official March 2015 final report were duly noted by the Spitfire cognoscente. In particular, the analyst who had caught Wargaming’s fundamental geospatial flaws in their YouTube-broadcast Museum lecture now presented compelling evidence of further abnormalities. Without any explanation to the public, in their newly-released Technical Report Wargaming significantly reworked its previous public offerings, including graphics, to “fit” the geography of Mingaladon. This was presumably due to their acknowledgement of severe errors in their RAF Museum presentation, as brought to the public’s attention on an Internet aviation forum.
Additionally, the analyst identified that Wargaming’s altering of scientific data, without admission or apology, included an expansion, by 4500 square metres, of the size of their January 2013 geophysical survey area.
With the benefit of two further years of research and discussion, and using the logic of Means, Motive and Opportunity – the same analogous CSI principle claimed to have been embraced by Wargaming, it is worth putting on record the following:-
MEANS. The Wargaming team advised that there was no facility and infrastructure to bury Spitfires at Mingaladon at this time, but they failed to identify that 465 AT Engnrs of 12 Army, a company of the Indian Army Royal Engineers under a British Commanding Officer, had been assigned to Mingaladon on ‘Air Works’, in principal to extend the then-main runway westward, over the Prome Road, to make it suitable for medium bombers.
Photographic evidence shows earthworks some 25ft high bulldozed into position to extend the runway and also to add parallel taxiways on each side. Clearly there were ample means to bury Spitfires. Clear photographic proof of a crashed and abandoned DC-3 Dakota being buried under Mingaladon runway expansion spoil supports the concept of Means.
MOTIVE. So what would be the motive for burying Spitfires at this tempestuous time for South East Asia? Not, as some have surmised, to support a returning RAF in the event of extreme civil strife following Burma’s pending independence.
With the imminent granting of Independence to India in 1947 and the partition of the country, and the consequent massive upheaval of the population along religious/ethnic lines, the fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force and RAF in theatre were transferred and divided between the two factions. The Spitfires plus some Tempests stayed with India, with the remaining Tempests going to Pakistan.
For administration purposes the UK had basically looked upon Burma as a state of India, and Burma, too, would demand its Independence following the lead of India. The ethnic mix of the people of Burma would dictate that at least two major factions would challenge for political power, and in 1946/7 it was not clear which faction would emerge triumphant. The British Military Command in South East Asia under Mountbatten tended to favour one faction (Burman), whilst the Civil Affairs administration headed by the returning Governor, Sir Reginald Dorman-Smith, post the Japanese withdrawal, favoured the other (Karen).
The complex politics of the time were compounded by the change in power from Conservative to Labour in the UK; each party appeared to have differing views on the future of Burma leading up to Independence. Leading figures were dismissed. Burma would need an Air Force after being granted Independence, and indeed the successful AFPFL party (Burman) sent envoys to Singapore to successfully purchase a few Spitfires, transport aircraft and ammunition in 1948. It would be one view that if there was an opportunity for one element of the British presence in Burma to hide away a few surplus or derelict Spitfires in support of a favoured Burmese faction, then they might well have done so.
OPPORTUNITY. The June 2013 Wargaming presentation went to some lengths to show that there were no surplus squadron-strength Spitfires in the official records at Mingaladon. Wargaming failed to mention that at nearby Hmawbi, connected directly to Mingaladon by a functioning railway, Spitfires were present in non-airworthy condition, or that returning squadrons from Thailand had deposited their tired Mk VIII Spitfires at Hmawbi to re-equip with the more advanced Mk XIV Spitfire before departing shortly thereafter for India. Aircraft Movement Cards located with the Air Historic Branch MoD in London reveal many Spitfire candidates in SEAC simply stamped ‘Presumed Struck Off Charge’.
A very close study of photo reconnaissance images of Mingaladon dated March 1945, shortly before the Japanese departure, shows minimal presence of aircraft. Equally similar images dated February 1947, after the completion of the runway extension, show just normal parked operational aircraft together with evidence of the massive earthworks.
What the Wargaming presentation did reveal was a document from the South East Asia Command salvage officer’s report dated November 1945 that no less than 100 wrecked and non-airworthy aircraft that had accumulated at Mingaladon had been assigned to CAS(B), Civil Affairs Service (Burma), for disposal locally, for the purpose of assisting the locals to make cooking utensils! CAS(B) was headed by Sir Reginald Dorman-Smith
So we are to believe that 100 aircraft of unspecified types were dismantled by the local population, either supervised or unsupervised, on the active Mingaladon airfield with tools and equipment at their disposal, with no help from the departing RAF, at a time of increased airfield security and civil unrest, major runway infrastructure upgrade and a monsoon …without leaving but a trace in the panoramic photo of January 1946 and the PRU recon images of February 1947?
That is a mighty big ask.
By: paul1867 - 11th June 2016 at 01:36
From the pictures in Paul’s post it seems that a Japanese word may have lost some meaning in the translation. If the Spitfires are “underground” like these Japanese hangars then surely they would have tripped over them by now?
Indeed, Geoff has it exactly right.
Mark12, I very much hope you intend to continue posting. I, like many others, miss your invaluable contributions to the forum. Welcome back, please.
By: Malcolm McKay - 11th June 2016 at 00:12
From the fact that neither did David Cundall we can only assume that he, quite reasonably, assumed the fact the Japanese had started to dig some ‘underground’ hangars at an earlier time had no great relevance to tales of pristine, crated Spitfires in holes dug by Seabees during 1945?
Moggy
Well put – that was the conclusion I came to.
A further question concerns the accuracy of the wartime assessments of the reconnaissance photos – just because an analysis of a recon pic suggests that that was what was happening doesn’t actually mean that it was. As ever I remain sceptical – hope springs eternal and all that upbeat drivel but it’s actual airframes that count.
By: Otter - 10th June 2016 at 19:16
Mark 12, I don’t post a lot on here as my main interest is aviation clothing. I do try and read all your posts and it is very nice to see you ‘re-engaged here once more.
By: Robbo - 10th June 2016 at 18:37
If it had the accuracy of a game of pin the tail on the donkey, it wouldn’t really matter.
By: Moggy C - 10th June 2016 at 18:19
Andy, furnished with the location of a supposed underground hangar, you didn’t explore this spot or mention that it was documented at the time?
From the fact that neither did David Cundall we can only assume that he, quite reasonably, assumed the fact the Japanese had started to dig some ‘underground’ hangars at an earlier time had no great relevance to tales of pristine, crated Spitfires in holes dug by Seabees during 1945?
Moggy
By: Robbo - 10th June 2016 at 17:46
Dear All,
Indeed, as I am sure Mark 12 will confirm, the complete sentence without redaction reads:
“It is reported that underground hangArs are under construction 4950 feet SSW. of the intersection of runways No2 and No3.”
Second, the suggestion of underground works being constructed by the Japanese at Mingaladon is not unusual. The allied photo interpreters refer to such works on an number of occasions, for example, Air 23/3869 contains another intelligence appraisal which refers to unidentified “underground working” and “truck activity” at a location on Mingaladon.
Of course, these documents represent the PI’s best interpretation of what they are seeing, not what is actually there on the ground. Subsequent to the Allied occupation of Mingaladon there is no reference in any of the copious amount of documentation to any substantial underground works being located. Neither are there any substantiated reports of any such structures being found during the extensive reconstructions of the airport which have taken place in the past seventy years.
Clearly buried structures did exist, and may still exist, on Mingaladon. At least one such structure was destroyed in one of Mr Cundall’s previous excavations. However, there is no evidence for anything of the scale required to house aircraft.
So, for now it is a case of “Move along please, nothing to see here.”
Andy, furnished with the location of a supposed underground hangar, you didn’t explore this spot or mention that it was documented at the time? It’s the sort of detail that I’d expect a publicity seeking enterprise, such as your expedition, to mention but you’re dismissive. It strikes me as a glaring omission since it would go some way towards countering your opinion that there wasn’t the means to bury Spitfires, instead, you flogged to death a weak joke about warbirds to woks.
Mind you, would this information have made much difference when Matt Poole has shown that you had great difficulty working out exactly where you were in relation to the wartime layout due to mistakes in interpreting the relative scales of period photos and modern aerial mapping. Time will tell.
How does the hangar location tally with where you did dig and where the underground structure near the four nav lights was found?
“So, for now it is a case of “Move along please, nothing to see here.””
If anything does surface, your report will undoubtedly be the next thing that’s dug up.
Welcome back, Peter.
By: Trolly Aux - 10th June 2016 at 16:57
Well said One Bat, I agree totally.
Welcome back Peter
deep respect for all, if you dont look you cant find
By: peteh - 10th June 2016 at 16:55
Well said Geoff, my sentiments entirely. Welcome back Mark12
By: 1batfastard - 10th June 2016 at 15:51
Hi All,
Mk12 (Peter) It is great that you have taken the time to post again, nice to see you where you belong posting with that inexhaustible supply of information you hold within your brain thank you……:applause::eagerness:
Can’t we all just wish Mr Cundall good luck with his quest ? If they are found then good on him, if not well still just pat him on the back and wish him well on his next quest. Without people like Mr Cundall who actually put their own money where their mouth is (Along with some backers) I would say we wouldn’t have a lot of discovered and restored aircraft in museums or indeed flying today or indeed many of the items that have been collected or written about the subject of aviation of which we are all fans.
My own view is obviously there are untold undiscovered treasures of every type around the world and until somebody actually announces with pictures to back up that claim nobody will believe whoever discovers whatever. We should just be grateful that these people actually have the fortitude to follow their beliefs and allow us the privilege of becoming part of their discovery by viewing whatever when presented with the end result if successful.
I say again if nothing is found then just pat whoever about whatever on the back and wish them well. Lets all be totally honest these for want of a better word (Indiana Jones’s) are after all doing what most of us would like to be part of but cannot afford the Time/Energy and mainly the Money to do. All should be applauded for their efforts not ridiculed because their ideas and actions are to whoever viewed as a waste of time so lead on McDuff as the saying goes…;)
Geoff.
By: bradleygolding - 10th June 2016 at 09:46
Welcome back Mark12 🙂
Absolutely.
By: paulmcmillan - 10th June 2016 at 08:46
Googling “Japan Underground Hangars” brings up some interesting stuff
From Poplar to Papua: Montana’s 163rd Infantry Regiment in the Pacific in …
By Martin Kidston
Page 152
“Japan had built underground hangars to hide its aircraft”
https://www.flickr.com/photos/okinawa-soba/6794728007
https://fareastfling.me/tag/yomitan-japanese-aircraft-bunker/
“The Japanese called these earth-bermed facilities”
By: CeBro - 10th June 2016 at 07:06
Mark posted again, it will be a fine day today.:applause:
Cees
By: Malcolm McKay - 10th June 2016 at 03:42
… Clearly buried structures did exist, and may still exist, on Mingaladon. At least one such structure was destroyed in one of Mr Cundall’s previous excavations. However, there is no evidence for anything of the scale required to house aircraft.
So, for now it is a case of “Move along please, nothing to see here.”
But of course, the team and I are always ready to look at any genuinely new evidence if it does emerge.
Best wishes
Andy B
Thanks Andy for that clarification regarding the redacted text.
By: j_jza80 - 10th June 2016 at 02:04
Welcome back Mark12 🙂
By: Andy Brockman - 10th June 2016 at 00:46
INTELLIGENCE REPORT INDICATING POSSIBLE UNDERGROUND WORKS AT MINGALADON
Dear All,
I don’t propose to rehash all the arguments regarding the legend of Mingaladon. However, as the story has now resurfaced I do think it is worth putting this document into perspective.
First it is not new. I have been aware of it since beginning work on the project in 2012 when it was presented to the research team as part of David Cundall’s original compilation of evidence. That is the document we refer to as the David Cundall Dossier in the technical report.
Indeed, as I am sure Mark 12 will confirm, the complete sentence without redaction reads:
“It is reported that underground hangers are under construction 4950 feet SSW. of the intersection of runways No2 and No3.”
Second, the suggestion of underground works being constructed by the Japanese at Mingaladon is not unusual. The allied photo interpreters refer to such works on an number of occasions, for example, Air 23/3869 contains another intelligence appraisal which refers to unidentified “underground working” and “truck activity” at a location on Mingaladon.
Of course, these documents represent the PI’s best interpretation of what they are seeing, not what is actually there on the ground. Subsequent to the Allied occupation of Mingaladon there is no reference in any of the copious amount of documentation to any substantial underground works being located. Neither are there any substantiated reports of any such structures being found during the extensive reconstructions of the airport which have taken place in the past seventy years.
Clearly buried structures did exist, and may still exist, on Mingaladon. At least one such structure was destroyed in one of Mr Cundall’s previous excavations. However, there is no evidence for anything of the scale required to house aircraft.
So, for now it is a case of “Move along please, nothing to see here.”
But of course, the team and I are always ready to look at any genuinely new evidence if it does emerge.
Best wishes
Andy B
By: Malcolm McKay - 9th June 2016 at 23:34
Believe it when I see it – still it probably sells newspapers or online subscriptions. So it’s good for some.
By: paul178 - 9th June 2016 at 22:09
Nothing to add to the thread other than to see it is good to see Mark12 posting again!
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