C.47A c/n 25347…

as viscount say’s in post 13
Might, or might not help your research – although being a Dakota the more research you do, the more confused you get!

but for now you’ve all answered my queries, and so my grateful thanks…( and until the next time,)

regards,
jack…

Here’s my best shot at the translation of the above two messages in French transcribed from the French website –

‘The series F-WZIA-Z was assigned to Reims Aviation to permit test flights of Cessna products under licence destined for exportation. The end of the Reims/Cessna agreements probably made the series available, which explains its use for several C-47s intended for Mod Films. I have no trace of a F-WZIG, on the contrary there had been two F-WZIIs’

– DOUGLAS …..
– DOUGLAS …..
– DOUGLAS …..

Two F-WZIIs, this is not surprising, this type of registration is re-usable, on the contrary two RP-C1354s, this is surprising ….. unless if the first is destroyed accidentally and replaced by another. After verification, after writing this message, the c/n 25771 had been scrapped at Houma-Terrebonne (date?) and deleted from the US register on 23 May 2007. Thus it had not left the USA for Vietnam and/or the Philippines and the registrations F-WZII and RP-C1354 had simply been reserved ….. at least there could have been a transcription error considering the similarity of the c/n and s/n ….. that’s what I’m inclined to think.’

and –

‘I wonder anyway ….. why register (even temporarily) in France the DC-3s belonging to a Californian company for a convoy USA – Philippines. Probably a problem of overflying ….. unless the French military colour scheme could have been done in the USA.’

I hope that this helps.

….. and a little more from Jean-Louis –

‘je m’étonne quand même … pourquoi immatriculer (même temporairement) en France des DC-3 appartenant à une société californienne pour un convoyage USA-Philippines ? Probablement un problème de survol … à moins que les peintures militaires françaises aient été faites aux USA ?’

The translation of this and his previous post will, I’m afraid, have to wait until tomorrow.

hi,
thanks to all who took the trouble to answer my question’s, with the above info I now have it’s history.AA thanks to you for being translator I will have to try and progress beyond English…

again thanks all, much appreciated,
jack…

The latest post on the French forum –

La série F-WZIA/Z était attribuée à Reims Aviation pour permettre les essais en vol de Cessna produits sous licence destinés à l’exportation. La fin des accords Reims/Cessna en 1988 a probablement rendu la série disponible, ce qui explique son utilisation pour quelques C-47 destinés à Mod Films. Je n’ai pas trace d’un F-WZIG, par contre il y a eu deux F-WZII :

– DOUGLAS C-47B-1-DK c/n 14326/25771 43-48510, Bu17268(R4D-5), N10NA C-45J NASA 10), N423NA, N1AU, N6326Y, N840M, N4994N, F-WZII, RP-C1354
– DOUGLAS C-47B-1-DK c/n 14126/25571 43-48310, 348310 (Maroc), N54604, F-WZII, RP-C1353
et donc deux RP-C1354 avec le
– DOUGLAS C-47A-30-DK c/n 13923/25368 43-48107, 973(RCAF), 12956(CAF), C-GWMY, N3748Y, F-WZIR, RP-C1354

Deux F-WZII ce n’est pas surprenant, ce type d’immatriculation étant réutilisable, par contre deux RP-C1354 c’est plus surprenant … sauf si le premier est détruit sur accident et remplacé par un autre. Vérification faite en rédigeant ce message, le c/n 25771 a été ferraillé à Houma-Terrebonne (date ?) et radié du registre US le 23 mai 2007. Il n’a donc pas quitté les USA pour le Vietnam et/ou les Philippines et les immatriculations F-WZII et RP-C1354 ont simplement été réservées … à moins qu’il y ait eu une erreur de transcription compte-tenu de la similitude des c/N et s/n … ce que je serais enclin à penser.

I will translate this into English as soon as time permits.

The history given by Jennifer Graddidge in the 3 volume Air Britain 2006 ‘The First Seventy Years’ for c/no: 13901/25347 is:

43-48084 served as a C-47A, EC-47A, JC-47A then back to C-47A (units are given in the book, can copy if requested)
N638NA with NASA, Lewis, regd June 1961; Cleveland, OH (noted 1971)
N14MA, Mannion Air Charter, Detroit, MI regd 20 Nov 1973
Century A/L Inc regd June 1982 and cancelled March 1991
MOD Films
To Bangkok for use in a film in Vietnam
F-WZIG Permit 28 Sept 1991 to 15 Oct 1991 for ferry Da Nang to Manilla
RP-C1352 Avia Filipinas Intl Ic, Manila June 1993
C R Miller, Manila.
Damaged 1997 in taxiing accident at Manila
wfu Feb 1998
C M Aero Services, Manila in service 2001 as ‘25347’.
Vol 3 (amendments & updates 2011) adds: RP-C1352 noted derelict at Manila in Dec 2007 and again Sept 2009.

The entry for Mannion Air Charter of Detroit, MI states: Used four DC-3s (N12MA to N15MA) for charter work from 1972 until their sale in June 1982, also had earlier owned N88790.

The entry for Century Airlines, Pontiac, MI states: Founded in 1963 as Cryderman Air Service, name changed around 1980. Century Airlines used several DC-3s on charter work, as well as C-46s and Convairs. Last 3 DC-3s were retired in 1993. 15 DC-3 registrations are listed, including N14MA and N15MA.

Interestingly the index does not mention F-WZIH, but there are Dakotas F-WZIG, F-WZII and F-WZIR listed.

Might, or might not help your research – although being a Dakota the more research you do, the more confused you get!

hi,
that’s great for the reg. confirmation, although I notice F-WZIH is given as opposed to F-WZIG but the other details are the same .Could I ask if you could ask for a delivery date if that’s possible…

regards,
jack…

From Jean-Louis Bleneau on the Aérostories forum:

‘Hi folks !
From my files :
DOUGLAS C-47A-30-DK SKYTRAIN c/n 13902/25347 43-48086,N638NA,N14MA,EC-668, .. F-WZIH,(F-WZIB),RP-C1352.
Left the States as N14MA for Spain (EC-668 is a temporary registration). F-W… is a register dedicated to prototypes and temporary registered aircrafts pending certification and/or export.

Best regards/JL’

hi,
thanks aa, I’ve posted I think… also for the offer of a translation if any replies are forthcoming…

regards,
jack…

See http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumhist/aff.php?nummsg=62009. If it produces any useful information, I’ll translate that and post it here.

hi,
thanks, I will read it later, at the moment when I press the translator button nothing happens, but I will persevere…

thanks for your help, regards,
jack…

hi,
can anyone help me with the post war history of the above C.47a, I,m interested in its service with Mannion (Air Cargo) as N14MA then I belive it was cancelled by the FAA on its sale to France as it mention’s F-WZIG but I can find no information about this period,so if anyone can help…

regards,
jack…

Hi Jack, full story here http://www.aeromovies.fr/articles.php?lng=fr&pg=1188

It was one of three Daks operated by a film company in Vietnam on temporary French registrations.

Eric

I don’t think that France had any ‘colonies’ in 1991 (just outre-mer territories) and as F-W### registration marks are generally reserved for prototypes, prior to them taking up a CNRA/CDN/CDNR registration mark, it seems a little strange that a 1943 aeroplane should be allocated the mark F-WZIG (and, according to one source, F-WZIH as well). But as this is asserted on more than one website, who am I to gainsay! Unfortunately F-W### registrations are not accessible via the DGAC website. You could try posting your request for information on a forum such as http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumhist/index.php.

hi,
thank you for your reply, I was thinking of area’s in the central America’s, I did wonder about the F-W… but it is mentioned on a couple of search results. I’ve looked at the forum you mentioned but can not find where I can get it translated…

again thanks for your help, regards,
jack…

I don’t think that France had any ‘colonies’ in 1991 (just outre-mer territories) and as F-W### registration marks are generally reserved for prototypes, prior to them taking up a CNRA/CDN/CDNR registration mark, it seems a little strange that a 1943 aeroplane should be allocated the mark F-WZIG (and, according to one source, F-WZIH as well). But as this is asserted on more than one website, who am I to gainsay! Unfortunately F-W### registrations are not accessible via the DGAC website. You could try posting your request for information on a forum such as http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumhist/index.php.

There are images on Flickr and with its last user

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23032926@N05/11013290304
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/8952208319/

Plus Planes CZ

http://www.planes.cz/en/photo/1130110/c47a-dk-rp-c1352-preserved-manila-mnl-rpll

hi, morning,
thanks not seen those photo’s before, she look’s in a sorry state in the Manila one, I’ve also seen one in Mannion colours, it was with this company the reg. was cancelled on 29/3/1991, and she was exported to France as F-WZIG. What I’m trying to pin down is where she was after 29/3/1991 also the date of arrival in France, if indeed she did or to one of their colonies…

thanks again for your time, regards,
jack…

There are images on Flickr and with its last user

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23032926@N05/11013290304
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/8952208319/

Plus Planes CZ

http://www.planes.cz/en/photo/1130110/c47a-dk-rp-c1352-preserved-manila-mnl-rpll

There is a photo on Flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/23032926@N05/11013290304