Calais, migrants and everything related (Merged thread)

Well that’s stating the bl*****ing obvious. And I am have no doubt the affected countries, of which the UK is hardly a major sufferer, are spending every waking hour attempting to find solutions. It seems bizarre to suggest the problem is being ignored, or did I misunderstand?

The figures are not so important at the moment – the situation is out of control across europe,it is the pressure of those attempting entry now and those in the future that is important.
As Bruce posted – no easy answers here but the situation will not improve by ignoring it !

Fortunately or unfortunately it is not up to us to do anything about it.

In amongst the figures we are given there will be those which reflect the reality of the situation. Politicians and others will use whichever figures best suit their prejudices.

But if the ethnic white man is not reproducing at a rate which even replaces themselves, then what do we do?

There are no easy answers here. I am certainly not advocating open doors, as that is clearly wrong.

The trouble is – the big problem is not so much about ‘now’ – the big problem is in the future ! Unless this problem is strongly tackled now – how many annual migrants do we end up with in (say) 10 years time – how many do we need – 1 million ? – 10 million ? – 30 million ? Africa/Middle East has an almost unlimited supply of people – we cannot take them all !
If we are not going to be extremely selective about who we let into the country – why bother with border control at all ?
Also one facet often overlooked is birth rates amongst immigrants.
It is quite obvious that our NHS is really struggling to cope with the present population and growth rate – the ‘let em all in’ brigade are not even thinking along practical lines.

So, what, we just go on ‘feelings’?

Come on people, we can do better than that. In all this, we have one set of data, which we all admit cannot be perfect. I simply don’t believe there isn’t more than that.

i can’t take a position based on what we have. Too much opinion. Not enough fact.

And are often contradictory which makes them worthless.

There are statistics for everything – there just are. Someone knows the answer. Someone has been counting…

All very good, but who has been counting and what methods have they been using? Any interpolation, or do you reckon everybody fresh off the boat is somehow accounted for? Yes, there are ‘statistics for everything’, but it doesn’t mean they are accurate or even remotely good.

£18 billion in whichever currency you choose is a pinprick as a percentage of 25 years of EU GDP.

Say on average a country takes in 5000 a year and that we are talking about at least six EU nations(UK/F/BRD/NL/S/A)
Each persons cost about 2000 euro’s a month(housing/clothing/food/lawyers/staff at centre’s/civil servants etc) = 720 000 000 per anum
Now multiply that by 25(stream started in mid 80’s but we’ll just pretend it started in 1990) =18 000 000 000 Money which could have been better spent. No wonder our government’s are broke….

Bruce

But that’s the problem with statistics isn’t it? Who is actually counting, how are they counting, and who are they counting. As I said a few posts back there are numerous organisations producing contradictory figures. So what are we to believe?

Why would Dave, presumably in the know, refer to tens of thousands ?

We don’t know that do we ? Because apparently no one has been counting. However, there is a clue. A clue provided by Dave himself when he made a pre election pledge to reduce immigration to ‘tens of thousands’.

That begs the question: If the reduction is to that nett figure, what is the gross ? Hundreds of thousands must be the answer. So there Bruce, is a broad set of statistics. It seems that this country has ‘unknowingly’ been importing hundreds of thousands of immigrants for the last twenty or so years. That’s why we’re full up.

John,

There are statistics for everything – there just are. Someone knows the answer. Someone has been counting.

I find it interesting that there doesn’t seem to be an official answer. Perhaps I shall look deeper.

I am quite certain that the problem is not as big as is being suggested. Its a great political football..

It’s oft been said to me, that if we hadn’t won the War, we would be speaking German now. Well, in the last few yrs, I have learned a few phrases of Polish, Ukrainian, and Lithuanian, all without having to go to night school………:)
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Who is responsible for ‘gravy train’ becoming the go-to metaphor for you angry right winger types? Littlejohn? There is a whole vista of metaphor out there, get creative!

We like the ones you can understand.

If we consider that the proportion of people looking to come specifically here is low compared to other countries, why do others choose those countries?

There may well not be any clear cut answer here.

We don’t know that do we ? Because apparently no one has been counting. However, there is a clue. A clue provided by Dave himself when he made a pre election pledge to reduce immigration to ‘tens of thousands’.

That begs the question: If the reduction is to that nett figure, what is the gross ? Hundreds of thousands must be the answer. So there Bruce, is a broad set of statistics. It seems that this country has ‘unknowingly’ been importing hundreds of thousands of immigrants for the last twenty or so years. That’s why we’re full up.

My money is on Corbyn being chosen to head the Labour Party now, to be replaced by the other Miliband a year or so before the next election.

Moggy

Trusting that the labour party doesn’t splinter in the prevailing period. Corbyn seems like a return to oldschool Labour form, complete with radical hat, radical beard and open-neck’d shirt. Re-nationalising the railways doesn’t seem like the sort of priority or policy the Blairite centre-right Labour party of the last few years would consider campaign material. Corbyn isn’t exactly on course to unify the Labour party, whilst Diane Abbott and Alastair Campbell come to (Twitter) blows over Corbyn’s role within the party. It looks rather like a political party in the midst of an implosion, and I don’t see how a bait ‘n’ switch with the nerdier, and infinitely less sellable of the two Millipedes, will help either.

G-BIKI – good. Some first hand experience. So why are they so desperate to catch our gravy train when they would do much better catching the French one and the same in several other European countries?

In the Middle East I believe Turkey and Lebanon have an immigration problem next to which ours pales into insignificance.

Who is responsible for ‘gravy train’ becoming the go-to metaphor for you angry right winger types? Littlejohn? There is a whole vista of metaphor out there, get creative!

… when crunch time arrives in May 2020, and assuming Corbyn remains leader if he is actually elected leader

My money is on Corbyn being chosen to head the Labour Party now, to be replaced by the other Miliband a year or so before the next election.

Moggy