Calling all Avro Lancaster fans:- Guy's at it again (Channel 4 /9pm)

Thanks Anne, standard operating procedure I guess.
 

But it’s not about me, but a private organisation which has been working for decades to locate and bring home missing aircrew from WW2, irrelevant what their nationality may be.

@Geoff, I have been a volunteer with this organization: Aircraft Recovery Group 1940-1945, since 1989. Website www.arg1940-1945.nl

and have been a member on this forum for around 20 years (you should know). CeBro is short for Cees Broere. Previously HP57.

The wreck was found by a fishing trawler during 1998 and our group was contacted. We identified the aircraft and spent the next decades trying to have it recovered. The next of kin were also contacted. The main thing is that the next of kin can now close a chapter and the three missing finally have been laid to rest. 
Cheers

Cees

If it makes you feel better Cees, I didn’t get credited either after supplying quite a bit of info at the start of the process.

I decided not to watch the programme. However, I have watched many of Guy Martin’s documentaries which overall have been very good.

According to my records, yes I’m a Lancaster fan, ED603 of the PFF set off that fateful night from RAF Wyton – a place I know very well.

I have known for many years that the Dutch Armed Forces have a specialist, full time, unit carrying out this work. They seek the support of the next of kin as well as the UK government throu’ the War Graves Commission. The Netherlands was of course invaded during WWII and the work carried out here and similar is seen, by the Dutch nationals, as a debit of honour.

We in the UK see the disturbance of a final resting place as a criminal act. Unless carried out by Court Order of course. Therefore, the MOD is obliged to accept the fact that its support for such actions is somewhat limited. However, in the case of ED603 the MOD did provide some support (see below).

My reason for not watching lies with the fact that I have a family member (Catalina pilot) his final resting place is in the North Atlantic – exact location N/K. Past generations of my family have said they do not want to know any more details – he should be left in peace. I fully support that decision.

However, reading previous posts here it would appear that the work was carried out very professionally by the Dutch and UK War Graves Commission. I would have expected nothing less!

The BBMF didn’t carry out a flypast because of the timing. The flight would have been on Winter maintenance as witnessed by the document date.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/ww2-lancaster-recovered-from-the-sea-bed-after-80-years/

Hi All,

 I watched the programme last night and being totally honest I enjoyed it, I found that Guy was genuinely interested in the details and the engineering behind the recovery, and they human side of  it was dealt with quite delicately all said and done.

I was surprised they never managed to have a flyover from the BBMF but in hindsight I suppose their Lancaster cannot answer all requests either due to other commitments or recent groundings ?

It did remind me however of the B-24 that is still in the zuiderzee and the decision not to recover it for whatever reason and like mentioned in the programme there are many more wrecks awaiting the same procedure.

I suppose being realistic they will never be able to recover all and it will take an awful lot of money and willpower to give the go ahead for these projects.  Hopefully these type of programmes will keep this subject in the public eye forever and not just become part of the ‘ We don’t like to mention that ‘ PC brigade.

I have the upmost respect for anybody involved in these projects as without all organisations involved the families who have unanswered questions, the wider public let alone the aviation enthusiast would never know and for that I thank them.

One last thing I did reach out to Guy Martin as I was concerned I had inadvertently stirred up a hornets nest and received a reply to which the following was part of:- 

” It was funded by the Dutch government, along with the war graves commission and Guy went along and got the backstory, helped with the recovery which was filmed by channel 4 to raise awareness for the work being done.”

Cebro:- Just out of interest what organisation do you belong to ?  you never mentioned it in your reply post and do you have a website for interested parties to view ?

Anyway like I and others have said we enjoyed the programme and that is what it is all about at the end of the day,  long may these type of programmes continue IMPO.

Geoff.

I was also impressed with the sensitive way the Dutch authorities handled the subject of remains being shown etc It was obvious they took the task seriously and with respect to the families.

I also liked the way Guy Martin very much kept to the “I’ve come along to observe” mentality rather than trying to claim they had been a big cog in the team as the title might have given impressions of. 

Martin was just a presenter, to use his name gives the narrative a profile, and helps for marketing purposes ie views and advertising revenue .

I think anyone who has any genuine knowledge of the enterprise will understand that, and all this rather overblown indignation is a bit of a side show. 

The Dutch deserve all the credit of course, but I doubt they are looking for it,  as the real efforts, commitment and sacrifice at the centre of this excavation were made eighty years ago.

I found the program very moving and have huge gratitude to you Cees, your team, and everyone who worked so hard to honour these brave men.

I thank God for you all.

Just watched the programme, it was very interesting and in fairness it promoted what a great effort the Dutch government and the people put in to recover the missing aircrew of these second world war aircraft. I think the title of the programme was misleading purely to draw the public in.

In fairness Guy Martin made no pretence of being anything other than an observer and narrator.

And, likewise,  the TV production companies who doubtless spotted the opportunity, had the number of a TV face who’d be interested, and rolled in with their own take on it. I doubt Guy knew anything about the backstory.

I suppose we should be glad that the Dutch authorities take an interest at all, unlike the MOD, but I absolutely understand why it rankles with you  Cees. It would boil my blood too.

Not accusing anyone for fraud.
Not a stab at Mr Martin mind you, whom I respect very much.

Just that the powers that be (Dutch) never accept private organisations to do their job.

But they will take the credit.

Cheers

Cees

Hard to believe that anyone really thinks Guy Martin did anything but bring his charm to the subject, as he did for the Spitfire replica programme. So what? We’re not really that naive are we? If it had been presented by Dan Snow, would we have thought the same?

Hi All,

Cebro – If that is the case why not cause a stink ?  I suspect that this will not be the first time this sort of thing has happened by pulling the wool over peoples eyes.  I mean as an example look at the alleged Reform character who has suddenly disappeared and the accusations of an alleged C4 plant, puff! vanished.

How about contacting Guy Martin direct ?  I imagine being as he is a straight up guy he wouldn’t want anything to do with this if he knows the truth as you have said.

IMPO Are not C4 committing a fraud ?  claiming something that is not true unless during the programmes airing they mention your involvement from the discovery etc. etc. etc.

Anybody else know the in’s and out’s of the legalities of these fraud crimes ?

Geoff.

Funny Guy did that.

This has been our organisation’s project since 1999. We identified the aircraft, found the next of kin etc. And as usual others take the credit. Hilarious as usual.

Cheers

Cees