Can I get some Wellington assistance?

Morning JDK

After using some leads here it appears that based on the names of the crew, when it was lost and the confirmation of the squadron they were serving with that the aircraft was BJ968.

The artist produced the painting based on word of mouth information and used BJ958.

As he is not by any stretch an aviation type much less an aviation history type I can see the mistake.

As the painting itself (already completed) tells a phenomenal story and is a great tribute to all of those that did not get to come home it is in my mind a minor artistic error that does not dilute the effort and talent the artist has out into creating the image and recognizing the story of the crew.

But yes you are right I fully plan on passing all the information to him in private and quietly.

Kev35
We are going to attempt to pull the service record when time permits, this has all happened in the last few days so there won’t be time before Nov 11th, but i believe it is important we not just display the painting but tell the story of the crew…they are the real story and history.

Once again I thank you all for your valuable assistance.

Tom

Morning JDK

After using some leads here it appears that based on the names of the crew, when it was lost and the confirmation of the squadron they were serving with that the aircraft was BJ968.

The artist produced the painting based on word of mouth information and used BJ958.

As he is not by any stretch an aviation type much less an aviation history type I can see the mistake.

As the painting itself (already completed) tells a phenomenal story and is a great tribute to all of those that did not get to come home it is in my mind a minor artistic error that does not dilute the effort and talent the artist has out into creating the image and recognizing the story of the crew.

But yes you are right I fully plan on passing all the information to him in private and quietly.

Kev35
We are going to attempt to pull the service record when time permits, this has all happened in the last few days so there won’t be time before Nov 11th, but i believe it is important we not just display the painting but tell the story of the crew…they are the real story and history.

Once again I thank you all for your valuable assistance.

Tom

I’d agree with everything James has said in his previous posts. 37 Squadron, on occasion, recorded their aircraft in the ORB with just the last three numbers of the serial and the individual code letter, e.g., 345 ‘T’. It can make life difficult.

Good luck with it. You could also get a copy of his Service Record from LAC in Ottawa.

Regards,

kev35

I’d agree with everything James has said in his previous posts. 37 Squadron, on occasion, recorded their aircraft in the ORB with just the last three numbers of the serial and the individual code letter, e.g., 345 ‘T’. It can make life difficult.

Good luck with it. You could also get a copy of his Service Record from LAC in Ottawa.

Regards,

kev35

Thanks to your help we have been able to discover the poor artist has the right A/C number but the wrong serial number!

:confused: He can’t have ‘the right aircraft number’ as it wouldn’t have had one on it. Aircraft Letter, indeed, serial, certainly, unit two-letter code, as well. Can you clarify?

Poor guy don’t know if I have the heart at this point to let him know!

I would, politely, in private. You can then discuss and agree to let it stand or have it changed. Many artists are happy to make corrections in these situations for these kind or events, if the media (oil, tempera etc) allow.

If you don’t someone else almost certainly will (in due course) and perhaps embarrassingly, which is poor payment for the effort he’s taken.

Regards,

Thanks to your help we have been able to discover the poor artist has the right A/C number but the wrong serial number!

:confused: He can’t have ‘the right aircraft number’ as it wouldn’t have had one on it. Aircraft Letter, indeed, serial, certainly, unit two-letter code, as well. Can you clarify?

Poor guy don’t know if I have the heart at this point to let him know!

I would, politely, in private. You can then discuss and agree to let it stand or have it changed. Many artists are happy to make corrections in these situations for these kind or events, if the media (oil, tempera etc) allow.

If you don’t someone else almost certainly will (in due course) and perhaps embarrassingly, which is poor payment for the effort he’s taken.

Regards,

Thanks so much for the additional information gentlemen.

Thanks to your help we have been able to discover the poor artist has the right A/C number but the wrong serial number!

Poor guy don’t know if I have the heart at this point to let him know!

But the sentiment and the painting are wonderful and will bring a special feel to the Remembrance Day ceremony.

Tom

Thanks so much for the additional information gentlemen.

Thanks to your help we have been able to discover the poor artist has the right A/C number but the wrong serial number!

Poor guy don’t know if I have the heart at this point to let him know!

But the sentiment and the painting are wonderful and will bring a special feel to the Remembrance Day ceremony.

Tom

Hi Tom,

s/n is apparently BJ958
Aircraft number Z958

I was suspicious of the serial sequence at first, but it was a Wellington’s serial, so that’s good.

Using this reference (http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h425.html) the unit’s Squadron letters were ‘KW’, so the aircraft would almost certainly have had standard green / brown upper camouflage and black undersurfaces. Wellingtons had a number of detail variations, such as the undersurface camouflage demarcation line style, but not a lot more than that. I’m sure someone else here can help with the style of roundel for that period, but there’d be nothing underwing, and blue/red upper wing ones.

Otherwise (unless it was an exception – which did happen) it’d have KW Z on the fuselage side, the ‘Z’ separated from the other letters by the roundel, and serial BJ958 on the rear fuselage.

Here’s an image of another aircraft of the same unit: http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/well-b.jpg

It seems that the ‘KW’ was aft of the roundel on the starboard, and maybe the port side also. I’d suspect this picture would serve as a reasonable interpretation of most probably what your subject looked like.

The unit reference to ‘Z958’ would be their choice of record keeping aircraft identification and would not appear on the aircraft itself. It’s a bit unusual, the normal form I think being either the aircraft letter, or complete serial, but the combination of the two with a part serial seems very unusual to me.

Better informed people may be able to clarify / correct!

HTH

Hi Tom,

s/n is apparently BJ958
Aircraft number Z958

I was suspicious of the serial sequence at first, but it was a Wellington’s serial, so that’s good.

Using this reference (http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h425.html) the unit’s Squadron letters were ‘KW’, so the aircraft would almost certainly have had standard green / brown upper camouflage and black undersurfaces. Wellingtons had a number of detail variations, such as the undersurface camouflage demarcation line style, but not a lot more than that. I’m sure someone else here can help with the style of roundel for that period, but there’d be nothing underwing, and blue/red upper wing ones.

Otherwise (unless it was an exception – which did happen) it’d have KW Z on the fuselage side, the ‘Z’ separated from the other letters by the roundel, and serial BJ958 on the rear fuselage.

Here’s an image of another aircraft of the same unit: http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/fgun/well-b.jpg

It seems that the ‘KW’ was aft of the roundel on the starboard, and maybe the port side also. I’d suspect this picture would serve as a reasonable interpretation of most probably what your subject looked like.

The unit reference to ‘Z958’ would be their choice of record keeping aircraft identification and would not appear on the aircraft itself. It’s a bit unusual, the normal form I think being either the aircraft letter, or complete serial, but the combination of the two with a part serial seems very unusual to me.

Better informed people may be able to clarify / correct!

HTH

Wellington info

According to the AB Files, BJ985 was from 425 Sqn RCAF, and crashed shortly after take-off from Elsham Wolds on the 23rd October, 1942.

Wellington info

According to the AB Files, BJ985 was from 425 Sqn RCAF, and crashed shortly after take-off from Elsham Wolds on the 23rd October, 1942.

No worries. Sorry I can’t help with colour schemes, however if you head over to the www.britmodeller.com forums, there are a lot of cammo anoraks in the ww2 aviation forum.

No worries. Sorry I can’t help with colour schemes, however if you head over to the www.britmodeller.com forums, there are a lot of cammo anoraks in the ww2 aviation forum.

Thanks so much

It will allow us to do a much better job at the Remembrance Day presentation.

Really appreciate the assistance.

Tom

Thanks so much

It will allow us to do a much better job at the Remembrance Day presentation.

Really appreciate the assistance.

Tom

Information copied from Chorley’s here:

http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=5982

Apologies to mods if that’s a verboten site.

Raid info here:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/sep42.html

Not sure what Theo Boiten has to say about how it was brought down, as the crew are remembered on Runnymede, my guess (but it’s no more than that) is that they were likely brought down over the sea by a night fighter.

Some info on German NF claims here:

http://www.don-caldwell.we.bs/claims/tonywood.htm

If you do a search for something called LUMA, at the gyges.dk site, you’ll find a tool to translate the numerical coordinates into map references.

Information copied from Chorley’s here:

http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=5982

Apologies to mods if that’s a verboten site.

Raid info here:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/sep42.html

Not sure what Theo Boiten has to say about how it was brought down, as the crew are remembered on Runnymede, my guess (but it’s no more than that) is that they were likely brought down over the sea by a night fighter.

Some info on German NF claims here:

http://www.don-caldwell.we.bs/claims/tonywood.htm

If you do a search for something called LUMA, at the gyges.dk site, you’ll find a tool to translate the numerical coordinates into map references.