Canada Aviation Museum Collection

Ottawa CF-100’s

Yes Peter,

The do have three in collection with #100785 on loan to CWHM (it was stored outdoors in Ottawa) so I am glad that the boys at CWHM have done an excellent job on it’s perservation. Picture was taken at Hamilton Airshow static display.

#18752 needs some cleanup but looks in pretty decent shape considering how long is was displayed at CFB Uplands. Will look great displayed outside museum entrance!

And #100757 is preserved and looks very nice , much the way it did when it arrived at the musuem in 1979

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RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Thanks Andy
Another CF100?? Boy they must own 2 or 3 now? Hamilton has one on loan from them as well

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Beau

>So how come the RAF musuem gave them a Beaufighter but hung
>onto the engines? Did they use them on the example at
>Hendon? Whats the historys of either Beaufighter?

The story as I heard it is quite long, so I’ll condense it as much as I can.

RD253 and RD867 were recovered derelict, one from Ta Qali (Malta) and I think the other was acquired from Portugal. I’m not sure which came from where, but both were Old Mixon built TF X’s, and were acquired by the RAF Museum in the mid sixties with the intention of restoring one complete example to static display condition. The basis of this aircraft was RD253, which although it looks structurally complete at Hendon, is almost completely empty inside. She was restored at Bicester using the better parts from both aircraft.

RD867 has been created from the remnants of her original identity, and all the left over bits from RD253. Around the mid to late sixties, the RAFM were also looking for a Blenheim, and struck a deal with the Canadians to take a Canadian Bolingbroke in exchange for a Beaufighter. The Bolingbroke in question now lives in the Battle Of Britain Hall.

RD867 did have engines and cowlings fitted for a time while she was in the UK – she was seen and photgraphed in the static at the 1968 RAF Abingdon Air Show in a spurious 29 Squadron night fighter scheme which was inaccurate for a TF X, but which she still wears today. My guess is that she ‘borrowed’ everything forward of the firewalls from RD253 for her public appearance, as the RAF Museum had not yet been built, and therefore ‘253 would not have been on public display.

Presumably the Canadians assumed that she would be transported to Canada ‘as seen at Abingdon’. Not an unreasonable assumption, if you ask me. However, she arrived at Rockliffe some time afterwards, apparently without powerplant, and also missing the navigator’s blister, and has remained in external store ever since.

Quite how the Canadians will address the engine issue remains to be seen – there aren’t many correct Bristol Hercules engines around, and of those, very few are available – hence TFC’s decision to embark on a long and expensive project to re-engine their Aussie Mk 21 with late Hercs. Whether they would be able to share the knowledge gleaned from that project with the Rockliffe boys, and whether Rockliffe can even source late Hercs, let alone earlies, is also an open ended question.

Sorry to have gone on a bit. And that was supposed to be the SHORT version… 🙂

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Opps I think it might be CF-100 #18752

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Peter,

Those wings belong to a former CF-100 CFB Uplands gate guardian. I think it is #18434. It is to mounted at the entrance to the museum in the future sometime. The rest of the airframe is hidden on the far side of the museum…

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

What is all the part that are laying near the beaufighter?? Even the crane looks ratty!

I would certainly give my first born to have those H style antennas off of the DC3! Anyone know if there are any spares??

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Yes they do have a web site.

sitehttp://www.aviation.nmstc.ca/eng/english_home.html

I did read at sometime that the museum was having a difficult
time locating correct engines for the restoration and therefore
they chose not to start anytime work on the airframe until such time.
The museum has quite a the collection of engines so I am sure that a trade could be sorted out if they were really interested in doing it?
Are these Britol Radials rare these days compared to P&W radials?

I kind of wish that a Canadian Museum had a B-17 in it’s collection.
With some many in the States and none in Canada. It seems a shame that we couldn’t have one restored. Like the one found in Labrador Did any Canada Forces use the B-17 during or after WWII?

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

So how come the RAF musuem gave them a Beaufighter but hung onto the engines? Did they use them on the example at Hendon? Whats the historys of either Beaufighter?

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Does the museum have a web site ?

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Andy:

Thanks a million for the Lib pictures. (And clearly others are equally grateful for pictures of their favourite types!)

Hope the expansion goes ahead, and those rare airframes get under cover soon. Regards and thanks again,

Snoopy

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Yes Charles the Beaufighter is a touchy subject with many of the
local aircraft fans. I like many others have been visiting for the museum since the 70’s and are very disturbed at it’s deteriorating condition but enought said. I am hopeful that one day something will be done with their Viscount, Argus, Beaufighter, Northstar, DC-3 etc..

It was sad this year when they were unable to open to the public, one of the favourites at the Museum, the “Argus” due to health hazard.. apparently the mold was making it unsafe for visitors and staff.

Please hurry up and start the expansion!!

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

As an Ottawa area resident and someone who has been visiting the museum for more than 25 years I gotta wade in on this one.

That Beaufighter is a crime. There really is no excuse for that. It has been stored outside for as long as I can remember. It really is pathetic, especially considering the TFC efforts to get theirs back into the air. It really is a shame. IT’S NOT THAT BIG!! If this really started as a “protest” at getting short changed in an exchange many years ago, well, that’s unfortunate, but it’s time to let go!!

As for the others, well, there are windows in the DC-3, but the condition is not good, and these birds are clearly visible from the parking lot, and has been mentioned, are open to visitors once a year. They are certainly not hidden away. Not that many around here seem to care about their condition though. Not a whole lot of pride in history.

My kids didn’t seem to care about the musty smell when they got to crawl around inside, but its sad. Supposedly some homeless people even took up residence in the Canadair Argus at one point, though that is just a rumour. More likely just pigeons, and there are plenty of those.

The good news is that construction of the new storage hanger will begin in the spring, so after being outside all these years, these aircraft will soon have a better home. Question is, after paying for the new building, will there be any money left to fix any of these up? NOT.

Charles

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

>Why are there no engines on the Beaufighter?

It arrived without them.

Nice pictures Andy, especially the firewall close up. That’ll be useful to refer to when it comes to working on ours, they’re a bit tatty.

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Why are there no engines on the Beaufighter? And is it me or do the DC3 and DC4 have no windows?

Ok so engines are not so common but dont tell Dak windows are…

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Here are a few more taken at the Museum..taken during the summer!

The Lib and the Beau.

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RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – the Lib

Thanks, Andy. Reassuring info, that! Yes, I’d love to see the photos if you can manage to post them.

Do you know the Warbirds of India site? A little info about that particular airframe is here, if you’re interested:

http://www.warbirdsofindia.com/ovb24-2.html

Regards and thanks again for the info,

Snoopy

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-01-03 AT 01:40 PM (GMT)]To be honest, the Beaufighter doesn’t really look any worse off than she did in a photograph I saw a few years ago. That said, storing this rare aircraft inside surely should have been possible – if necessary, detach the outer wings to make her easier to squeeze in.

I’m not entirely sure what the official line is on this aircraft; one theory I heard was that the Canadians were neglecting her in protest at the condition she was in when she arrived. The Canadians acquired her in exchange for the Bolingbroke currently in the RAF Museum, and were expecting a fully restored Beaufighter in return. Apparently RD867 was cobbled together from the bits left over from RD253’s (RAFM Beaufighter) restoration, and arrived in Canada in the late sixties without engines, cowlings, and with almost all her internal fittings missing.

I’d like to think that this isn’t indicative of her ultimate fate. I also heard around the same time that the Rockliffe people were tentatively looking at carrying out a full restoration programme on her, although I haven’t heard anything else since then. Personally, I’d be delighted if that were the case – she’d be a fitting tribute to the Canadian Coastal Command crews who played such an important part in the anti-shipping campaign in the North Sea. Are any of our Canadian members able to shed any more light on what her future may hold?

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection

Snoopy,

Yes the Liberator is still at the museum and in very excellent shape. It is hard to photograph as it is stored in the back crowded part of the facility.

The Liberator’s cockpit is opened once a year (on july 1st). I have had the chance to visit the cockpit on one occasion and I do have some other exterior photo’s to share. I will post a few tomorrow.

The indoor storage area has some real treasures but until they expand they are hard to see. A complete PBY Canso, Fairey Battle, Bolingbrooke, CT-133 and so on. They do bring quite alot of them out on July 1st which makes for great photo ops. But the big ones are hard to move about.

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection

Those who want to know more about the Me-163 (or other 163s for that matter), a fellow Dutch planespotter has made an excellent site:

http://www.sml.lr.tudelft.nl/~home/rob/me163/canada.htm
for the one posted above

and
http://www.sml.lr.tudelft.nl/~home/rob/me163.htm
for Komete in general.

RE: Canada Aviation Museum Collection – their B-24??

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-01-03 AT 11:06 AM (GMT)]Andy:

First, thank for the pictures — it did shock me a bit, to see such rare airframes exposed to the Canadian weather at this time of year, but from what you say that may just be a temporary arrangement. Hope they’re all moved under shelter soon.

One of my personal obsessions (apologies for the scratched record, to to those who’ve endured it before!) — I understand they have a B-24 Liberator in their collection. (It served previously with the Indian Air Force, and even earlier with ACSEA during WW2.)

Just to add to all the other questions put to you: Did you spot the Liberator? What kind of condition was it in? Was it under cover?

(And dare I hope — did you take a picture?)

Thanks in advance for any info at all, and regards,

Snoopy