Canada to fund supply/support ships

Canadian Navy

I agree.

Canada does need to replace the Iroquois destroyers, the Halifax class are still good ships. Canada should maybe learn a lesson from Denmark, there is a small country that is going ahead with designing their own multi-role frigates/destroyers with state of the art sensors and weapons, and just getting on with the job without the histrionics we see from many other navies.

Canada does need to replace the Iroquois destroyers, the Halifax class are still good ships. Canada should maybe learn a lesson from Denmark, there is a small country that is going ahead with designing their own multi-role frigates/destroyers with state of the art sensors and weapons, and just getting on with the job without the histrionics we see from many other navies.

– The Halifax class is fine and is being upgraded. Maybe the upgrade is somewhat modest, but better than nothing.

– JSS is very important and seems to be moving forward. Same thing for other modes of transport that will probably end up being CH-47D, C-17, and C-130J (or in the latter case, slight possibility of A400M, with the emphasis on slight). Also new medium trucks being built and we’ve recently introduced the G-Wagons.

– MGS … tough one … I’ve heard mixed reviews on this. Hopefully GDLS will be able to get it sorted out and it will provide a useful support for the infantry. Also LAV III TUA if it goes ahead will provide some AT capability. Tanks … sigh. Canada seems to have given up on tanks, mostly for political / strategic mobility / cost reasons. In my view the tank is still the queen of the battlefield, so hopefully someday (2020?) we’ll get around to getting some … perhaps optomized for urban ops (i.e. 120mm short barrel low vel gun, plenty of MGs, good _all round_ armour, etc.)

– CF-18s are good for now … being in the process of an upgrade as we speak. I’m sure that when the time comes Canada will bite the bullet and sign on to the F-35A.

– We got some M777s … that’s good news. Only 6 of them though. No plans to replace our M109s either … so self-propelled artillery seems to be a thing of the past for us. Hopefully we can build up enough towed 155 and 105 mm artillery to be able to compensate.

– I’d love to see an advanced SP mortar system procured on a LAV III frame. I think it would make a lot of sense. However, I don’t know if anything is in the works.

– Finally, something very close to my heart is the eventual replacement of the Iroquois class. It now appears this will be combined with a replacement to the Halifax class. I’m rooting for an updated version of APAR + SMART-L as the basic sensor system, but who knows what 2020 will bring? At the very least, at least 4 of the ships should provide area air defence and fleet command capabilities … the other eight (assuming they stick with 12) can have similar hulls but more toned down capabilities (i.e. point defence could be sufficient). Having said all that, it is hard to know what is truly the most cost effective and efficient way to procure a new generation of ships. The all-in-one proposal is probably polticically motivated (since it is always a hard sell to convince the Canadian public to buy anything, much less three things!), but perhaps a low / med / high mix might be in order … for example 10 OPVs, 6 frigates, and 4 destroyers.

What Canada needs is a larger navy of patrol class frigates to secure its waters, especially from those pesky foreign fishing vessels depleting our stocks. The Halfiax class frigates can perform various roles, we really just don’t have nearly enough of them. The Sea King helo severly limits its capabilities however. We should also look into new destroyers.

Having Escort carriers or ships in the same class is a long way off for Canada though.

I’m glad though the current government(which Im not particularly fond of)
is not selling our logistical support short.

The DND should look to purchase new MBT’s, there is no way our Leo’s will match up against modern armor in a future conflict. Also, we need a long range multi-role fighter to replace our Cf-18’s. They don’t have the range to operate in such a vast country with our limited airbases.

What Canada needs is a larger navy of patrol class frigates to secure its waters, especially from those pesky foreign fishing vessels depleting our stocks. The Halfiax class frigates can perform various roles, we really just don’t have nearly enough of them. The Sea King helo severly limits its capabilities however. We should also look into new destroyers.

Having Escort carriers or ships in the same class is a long way off for Canada though.

I’m glad though the current government(which Im not particularly fond of)
is not selling our logistical support short.

The DND should look to purchase new MBT’s, there is no way our Leo’s will match up against modern armor in a future conflict. Also, we need a long range multi-role fighter to replace our Cf-18’s. They don’t have the range to operate in such a vast country with our limited airbases.

Yeah i understand the differences between the two, ive served in the Aussie Air Force previously, things have changed a lot now but in the eighties and early nineties our militaries where kinda similar. Since Australia has adopted a more concervative and pro American political line we have overtaken the Canadians in the area of defence, or more accuratelly.. offence

Vague similarities only.

Australia has a much more interventionary military policy, particularly in its area of responsibility, which is the South Pacific and parts of southern South East Asia.

Also Australia requires a mix of both patrol boats for EEZ patrol and front line warships for operations in high threat environments, hence the continual upgrading of the Anzac frigates (from an admittedly poor baseline) and the upgrading of the last four FFG-7 class.

Australia has also commenced delivery of or signed up for; the JSF, M1A1, new specialist air-capable amphibious ships, new troop carrying helicopters, new 155mm artillery, new Armidale class patrol boats, Tiger attack helicopters, new anti-air warfare destroyers (most likely modified Arleigh Buke class) and is designing a new series of replenishment ships.

Canada generally seems to try and do Defence on the cheap, the politicians doing the service men and women a grave disservice.

At least the government in Australia understands that Defence costs and you have to fund the services if you want to be able to call upon them when needed.

Unicorn

Sounds very similar to Australias shopping list, minus a few big ticket items, is it just me or do the Aussies and Canucks pretty much buy the same hardware and in similar numbers?

F-18, Orion, Leopard 1, Lav-25 and variants and now 2 support ships, a dozen tactical helos and some heavy lifters as well as 4 C-17’s

Why doesn’t Canada just add a requirement to these JSS hulls to do ASW and AAW roles and also ASuW, and they will only ever need one ship type…..

Thanks

Actually SIRIUS is not a radar, it’s an IRST. Thales proposed SMART-S Mk2 to the FELEX by the way.

Cheers,
Sunho

My bad..

Danmac1

Actually SIRIUS is not a radar, it’s an IRST. Thales proposed SMART-S Mk2 to the FELEX by the way.

Cheers,
Sunho

Politically palatable

It’s a minority government, in a country with a historical antipathy to defence spending.
Agreed that more should — and likely will — be spent on the ‘ pointy end ‘ of things. But for now, our biggest issue.. that of getting troops to distant theatres and supporting them.. is being addressed. We can talk about future Air Force/Army requirements down the line, but in a purely Naval context, getting the support ships built is a big deal. It allows industry to ramp up once more after a decade of being dormant on the defence side, and by the time those ships enter service, DND should have it’s ‘ Common Surface Combatant ‘ or CSC.. sorted out and ready to cut steel.
In the interim, the Halifax class is getting ‘ FELEX ‘. The Frigate life extension program entails Evolved Sea Sparrow, as well as upgraded communications, Sirius radar, and upgraded computer software. The concern for me is what happens to the Tribals in the interim before the CSC’s roll down the ways.. those hulls are wearing out, and I have my doubts as to whether the Victoria’s will ever achieve their designed potential.

Interesting that the TSV’s are being touted as a “Modest Proposal”. Should Austral gain any further sales I would like to see the LHT (Light Helo Transport Ship) get a chance to be built and put into sercvice

For those of you who missed what this looks like:

This ship would offer a great transport capability for any navy. It has a deck with three helo spots and can store six helos below as well as the usual amphibious support equipment.

I think the question really is, what does Canada want? I mean $15 billion on ships that support the combat edge is ok but what about the Comabt ships themselves? The Halifax are going to need replacing soon, the Iraquois are scaling back to de-activation (only two are going to be upgraded with a limited life potential). They also need new Patrol boats and well the less spoken about the Victoria class the less of a jinx we put on them!

Wow, lots of money for everything except actual combat equipment.

Lots of stuff to get the sharp end to a conflict, and support them there, but sod all in the way of new fighting equipment.

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Supply ships

It looks like they will be a hybrid tanker/support ship with some sort of Roll on/Roll off capability — see the SFU link above. As for tankers, we have two.. HMCS Protecteur and Preserver, built 1969/70.. so getting geriatric. As for where they would be built, Halifax is an option..possibly.. so is the Davie yard in Quebec. The best yard to build them — Saint John.. is now closed — it built the Halifax-class.. with three subcontracted to Davie.

Have any idea what supply ships the navy is looking to purchase? Will they be assembled in Halifax?

From what I know we only have one supply/refuel ship.