Hi everyone, this is my first post here so I hope I’ve posted this in the appropriate thread. Please see the following information on the upcoming sale of the Canberra forward fuselage that has been at my ATC Squadron (115 Peterborough) for the last few years; I hope it will be of interest to some.
Canberra TT.18 WK127 – cockpit section available for sale
WK127 was built as a B.2 and delivered on 18 June 1954. It was initially taken onto the RAF’s charge and issued to 10 Sqd (at RAF Scampton at the time). Later it was converted to TT.18 configuration (a Target Tug as denoted by the yellow and black “don’t shoot me” stripes on the underside).
It was then transferred to 7Sqd at RAF St Mawgan where it flew un-camouflaged. Later it was re-painted in the standard camouflage and transferred to 100 Sqd, who were probably at RAF Wyton by then.
On 13 Dec 1988 it was involved in a landing accident at RAF Wyton. It was subsequently written off and and used for spares.
Transferred to the Battle Damage Repair Flight (BDRF) at RAF Wyton, it was allotted a Ground Instructional Airframe serial number, 8985M and coded “FO”. However, WK127’s code was “CS” [Charlie Sierra] in its flying days with 100 Sqd. The blue X painted on the side denotes that WK127 was one of the many aircraft nominated as “war material” for the purposes of the SALT deal in the early 90s. This TT.18 was scrapped at Wyton.
The cockpit was to be a renovation project but this cannot now proceed and as such it is offered for sale. The section runs from the crew ejection hatch forwards and is in reasonable condition. As can be seen the cockpit interior is without many instruments. However these are still held as they were removed together with the crew ejector seats as part of the preparation for renovation. These instruments and ejector seats are also included in the sale (the pilot seat being in still in place). Some work has been carried out to repair damage to the airframe skin and some panels have been removed. Included in the sale is a large quantity of airframe rivets and aluminium sheeting as well as assorted tools.
In 2009 a specially designed aluminium frame (seen in the pictures) was built to hold the cockpit, this is also included in the sale.
This is an amazing opportunity to restore a piece of British aviation history. Due to the level of interest, the cockpit and additional materials and equipment are available for inspection at the weekend. Please contact the vendor by email to arrange an appointment.
Sale Arrangements
Prior viewing is recommended and invited (we are in Peterborough). Please contact Stephen Dalton by email at [email]oc.115@aircadets.org[/email] to arrange a viewing on the following dates: 16th November, 23rd November, 1st December 8th December.
The sale will be arranged by way of individual bids, to reach the vendor no later than 1700 on the 15th December. Highest bidder will win and must transfer via a BACs payment to a nominated bank account within 5 working days. No collection can be arranged until full payment is made. The buyer will be expected to arrange collection however the vendor can provide details of a specialist company if required.
Pictures of the aircraft interior and exterior can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/108616657@N08/
By: Thunderbird167 - 18th November 2013 at 16:57
WK127 was scrapped by Hanningfield metals in 1992.
On the day of scrapping the nose went to the ATC at Bassingbourne.
From Bassingbourne it went to the ATC at Peterborough.
Therefore as it was acquired from HMS and not MOD it is not on charge
By: avion ancien - 18th November 2013 at 15:01
The Nose section of the Canberra belongs to the Sqn not the MoD
Merely out of curiosity, I find myself wondering how this can be. Would it not be the case that an ATC squadron does not have an existence independent of the MoD but is, to the contrary, a constituent part of the MoD? If so, would it not be the case that something which belongs to the squadron belongs, in fact, to the MoD? However I could understand if, for example, officers of the squadron had created, say, a charitable trust to hold an airframe which, for example, had been given for the squadron’s use and the trustees had then placed that airframe on loan with the squadron. If such trustees are ‘the vendor’, mentioned in the original post, then that would make sense. But if not, then anyone reading this thread, and being of a mind to make an offer to purchase the artefact, might be well advised to satisfy themself that those offering it for sale do, in fact, have title to and the right to sell it. Otherwise – caveat emptor.
By: Kilonovember52 - 17th November 2013 at 22:44
Re: HQAC CRO 03/13 ORDER NO 9. GROUND INSTRUCTIONAL AIRCRAFT (GIA)/GATE GUARDIANS
That was certainly the case when Harrier GR3 XV72 was moved from 2366 (Bletchley Park) ATC to Aeroventure, where it is the responsibility 1053 (Armthorpe) – Air Cadets Squadron, but is on loan to the Museum. Special dispensation had to be given by both the MOD who still own the airframe and HQ Air Cadets.
By: Big Barf - 17th November 2013 at 22:39
TT18 Nose !
Maybe this cockpit was not allocated by the MoD but was privately donated to this ATC squadron?
The Nose section of the Canberra belongs to the Sqn not the MoD, so they are quite alright to sell it on ! No embarrassing phone calls. I know this sqn and its CO v well.
By: avion ancien - 17th November 2013 at 19:23
Maybe this cockpit was not allocated by the MoD but was privately donated to this ATC squadron?
By: Philip Morten - 17th November 2013 at 19:17
Whilst I don’t wish to appear at the feast as Banquo’s Ghost, I do find myself wondering in whom title to ATC and CCF airframes is now vested. It is my belief that, in the past, they belonged to the MoD and were allocated to ATC and CCF units on loan. One has heard of inumerable stories of the ‘powers that be’ recovering airframes (particularly if, by virtue of the passage of time, they had become rare and desirable) from ATC squadrons. However it may be that, subsequently, the MoD has ceded title of these airframes to the units in whose possesion they now are. I mention this simply because I would not wish 115 Squadron ATC to have an embarassing telephone call on the eve of the deadline for bids (or, worse still, after money had changed hands and the airframe had moved on).
Indeed, instructions to this effect are regularly published in HQAC routine orders:
ORDER NO 9. GROUND INSTRUCTIONAL AIRCRAFT (GIA)/GATE GUARDIANS
32. ATC Squadrons and CCF units holding Ground Instructional Aircraft (GIA), Gate Guardian aircraft or cockpit/link trainers that have been issued through HQ Air Cadets are reminded that these assets remain the property of the MOD and are held on the MOD register. ATC squadrons and CCF units holding these assets are responsible for the husbandry and upkeep. The disposal of, removal of parts, or the allocation of these assets to other squadrons/units is strictly forbidden without prior authority from HQ Air Cadets
…
In practice there rules are extended to items that units have obtained from service sources whether on not HQAC were involved.
By: avion ancien - 17th November 2013 at 17:58
Whilst I don’t wish to appear at the feast as Banquo’s Ghost, I do find myself wondering in whom title to ATC and CCF airframes is now vested. It is my belief that, in the past, they belonged to the MoD and were allocated to ATC and CCF units on loan. One has heard of inumerable stories of the ‘powers that be’ recovering airframes (particularly if, by virtue of the passage of time, they had become rare and desirable) from ATC squadrons. However it may be that, subsequently, the MoD has ceded title of these airframes to the units in whose possesion they now are. I mention this simply because I would not wish 115 Squadron ATC to have an embarassing telephone call on the eve of the deadline for bids (or, worse still, after money had changed hands and the airframe had moved on).
By: Binbrook 01 - 16th November 2013 at 19:59
Sorry to dig up this one again, but weren’t the Canberra’s part of the CFE treaty, as SALT covered Strategic Arms ie ICBMs and B-52s/Tu-95s etc etc
Tim S
By: l.garey - 15th November 2013 at 07:51
Greetings from an ex-cadet at 115 (1954-1959). I saw the Canberra cockpit when I visited you last year. Sad that you have to sell it, but the proceeds will go to a good cause, it seems. I recall the previous “guardian” outside the old ATC hut at Westwood, Vampire T11 XE887. (Photo kindly sent to me from the squadron after my visit)
By: bazv - 14th November 2013 at 10:17
Dan… I have sent you a PM /notification !
rgds baz
By: Bruce - 14th November 2013 at 09:55
Sounds good to me! 🙂
By: danbeeden - 14th November 2013 at 08:56
Thank you for viewing the above favourably in relation to forum rules on advertising items for sale. Apologies for not having picked that one up.
I can confirm that the sale is not for personal gain. All funds raised are going towards the renovation of one of our classrooms on the Squadron and the purchase of new computers to facilitate training/develop a ‘Ground Flight School’ using MS Flight Sim for those cadets interested in a career in flying.
Best regards,
Dan
By: Bruce - 13th November 2013 at 21:45
I’m happy with this one, on the basis that it isn’t for personal gain.
Bruce
By: whalebone - 13th November 2013 at 21:40
6) Advertising of products and services is unacceptable, if you wish to advertise please contact our advertising team on +44(0)1780755131 or email [email]info@keypublishing.com[/email].
Whilst it is indeed a product, the last time is was an actual product was in June 1954, and it isn’t a service either.
Neither would I imagine that it is being sold for personal gain, being the long term property of the Squadron monies will probably be going into unit funds.
The cockpit is firmly within the remit of the historic forum and personally I think our new friend should be thanked for drawing its upcoming disposal to the attention forum members, some of whom may be very intersted in it indeed.
Much better surely than it just appearing on the usual ‘spotted on ebay’ thread. :rolleyes::
By: Arabella-Cox - 13th November 2013 at 19:07
Welcome, but paragraph 6 of this thread may apply…
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?27963-Forum-Code-Of-Conduct-(Updated-2012-Please-Read!)
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November 13, 2013 at 5:32 pm