Canberra WH872…..?

Wasn’t there a ‘coffin corner’ on the Canberra – a ‘safety/decision speed’ where it couldn’t be flown in the event of an engine failure on take off, whilst if it was above a ‘stopping speed’, it couldn’t be stopped on the remaining runway available? Didn’t this kill the CO of RAF Wyton and his crew during a take off from that base in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

scorpion 63 is much better qualified to answer this one.
but there are a few variables, depending on mark and take off weight,runway length /slope and the actual position of engine failure.
The later (heavier) a/c take off speed was lower than the safety speed (the speed at which one had enough control authority to counter the yaw/roll of assymetric thrust).
I witnessed an uncontained compressor failure after take off at Marham (Big Blowtorch!!) on (i think) an E15 which was carrying max fuel,the poor sod had to fly round on one engine for 3 -3.5 hrs to burn off fuel down to landing weight (no fuel dump facility),But at least he had enough speed to stay upright,assymetric thrust was a big killer on Canberras.
The PR9 had Powered Flying Controls so may be different.

Cheers Baz

Wasn’t there a ‘coffin corner’ on the Canberra – a ‘safety/decision speed’ where it couldn’t be flown in the event of an engine failure on take off, whilst if it was above a ‘stopping speed’, it couldn’t be stopped on the remaining runway available? Didn’t this kill the CO of RAF Wyton and his crew during a take off from that base in the late 70’s or early 80’s?

We received our new Canberra B2s in early 1952 and they had Maxaret brake systems. It was also stated in the Vol 1.

Ken

Maxaret units were introduced with the 21 inch wheels not the 19 inch fitted to the “light weight” B2,PR3,T4 and derivitaves, ie T17,TT18etc. Heavy weight B6,PR7, B(I)8,PR9 all had 21 inch wheels. My 231 OCU course notes, dated October 1963 state that “ALL 231 OCU Canberra are without Maxaret units”.

There was a Canberra T.19 WH714 which suffered brake failure whilst taxiing at Binbrook 19.6.68 and ran away down the Binbrook hill. It travelled quite a distance before stopping and was classed as a write-off. I don’t think the T.11/17/19 had the updated brakes.

My father was on B.2’s at RAF Manby/Strubby with the College of Air Warfare in the sixties and i can remember him saying he had some sticky moments on runways full of standing water. Of course everyone remembers the Ambassador accident at Munich but that was slush.

We received our new Canberra B2s in early 1952 and they had Maxaret brake systems. It was also stated in the Vol 1.

Ken

The anti skid system was introduced Mk5 onward,none of the B2/T4 a/c used by the OCU 72-77 had maxarets,the B15s/E15s at that time used by 85/98/100 sqdn did have them but they were basically B6’s .
Was getting WH and WJ mixed up… the T17 was a B2 derivative but did their brakes get updated during conversion to T17 ??never worked on that mark!!

Regards Baz

Canberra brakes.

We received our new Canberra B2s in early 1952 and they had Maxaret brake systems. It was also stated in the Vol 1.

Ken

Yes, it seems the Canberra was prone to aquaplaning. I don’t know if this was due to its mass and maybe thread /diameter of the tyres. Perhaps ex Canberra pilots can confirm ??

872 may have just been going a wee bit fast for normal braking after her ‘EFATO’,but in any case B2/T4 Canberras did not have anti skid brakes. B6’s onwards had Dunlop ‘Maxaret’ anti skid units which might have helped.
Back in the early 70’s on 231 OCU our chief ground instructor almost filed the wheels down to the axles when he ‘definitely did not land with the brakes on’ but made me miss a hot date whilst changing all the relevant parts:rolleyes:

Yes, it seems the Canberra was prone to aquaplaning. I don’t know if this was due to its mass and maybe thread /diameter of the tyres. Perhaps ex Canberra pilots can confirm ??

WH872

This is a remarkable coincidence! WH872 (‘W’) suffered and engine failure on take off at RAF Conningsbay on 25 Aug 77, The pilot had to raise the undercarriage to prevent the aircraft over running the rwy (rwy 26) and crossing the adjacent public road. ‘W’ was repaired and returned to 360 Sqn at RAF Wyton. For it to suffer another ‘wheels up’ is indeed a coincidence! So she ended her days on the dump at RAE Bedford?

Jag

Check your PM’s.

😉

Serial Confusion

After some digging through a number of reference sources and talking to my fellow database updaters, we have come to the conclusion the reference to WH872 being in Kilmarnock is an error.
At some point during the database construction the identity of the Canberra cockpit with the ATC was missrepresented as WH872, then when the work on the WJ serial batch was done at a seperate time, it was correctly described to WJ872, hence both subsequently ended up on the database.
Apologies for the confusion 😮 and thanks for spotting the error, I guess when you are dealling with over 36,000 individual entries across three websites one or two do creep in !

As a side point can anyone confirm if WJ872 was indeed scrapped by the ATC in 2002 / 2003. I’d love to finally put that to bed as well !

Regards

Yes it was Dave, need glasses here. It’s on my list as such. Other post deleted.

😮

Les – Kilmarnock ATC Squadron (No.327) had the cockpit of Canberra T.4 WJ872

As an aside when I inspected the aircraft at Kilmarnock circa seven years ago it was decidedly a Canberra T.4 nose so I guess there is a little serial confusion here!

Some information on this aircraft. As a T.17 “W” of 360 Squadron it aquaplaned on landing at RAE Bedford on 30/11/81 and the pilot retracted the undercarriage to stop. It was seen on the dump there on 21/2/82. It seems the nose section was saved from the previous notes.

WH872

Scrapped by 327 (ATC) Sqn, Kilmarnock, Strathclyde (nose section) fate unknown. 🙁

Contact them.

.

Canberra WH872

Does anyone have any further info on this:-
WH872, Canberra T17, (C) 8492M, Preserved, Kilmarnock, East Ayrshire, Scotland.

Can’t seem to find anywhere in Kilmarnock, East Ayrshire that this aircraft (cockpit) may be kept. Anyone know any better please?

Thanks I guess I will keep the flap guage from her then…..

According to the MACH III Publication UK Air Arms 2004 it is listed as being broken up at Bedford 1990.

However on checking through an old Wrecks and Relics 12th edition it was reported as being broken up and small pieces being removed in 1988.

Going back further to Wrecks and Relics 11th edition it was reported as being on the dump in sections July 1987.

Sorry I cant help further.