Carrier using nations..

I have a couple of models, maybe we should do a thread on models??? 😉

Hmm, that’s the problem Ja, I didn’t take time back then. Just beginning to model and thinking about making an entire fleet, only concerned by time, not money. Now things have turned, now it’s the money (and ordering people who)that decides what models and at what pace I build them. My latest toy is Admiral Graf Spee. ALso finishing the Pyotr Velikiy cruiser and an IL-76. And now, obliged to work on my big Sovremenny (1/200) to repair the damage done by the hurricane “Mother”. Lost a cannon, got its pennant number torn apart and a broken mast. As for other carriers, I have the USS Enterprise, the Minsk and the amphibious vessel USS Saipan.

I read a great article recently in Sea Classics. It told of the growing fleet of Retired American Super Carriers. Many of which will be used as targets or scrapped. 😮 Some are in very good condition! 🙁

Sev: Mate that model isn’t too bad, I can see that a lot of work went in to it.

As for the Viraat/ Bonnie swap, it can happen, remember back then ocean watching from the skies (sattelites) wasn’t as advanced nor as many, so it may have happened. If it did, then the Brits would know something about it as well, and since Viraat is now a museum piece, you could cross reference the actual hull number with those on the British records and have your answer, finally.

No problem Ja, if there are corrections then that is very good, that’s what a forum serves for, gathering knowledge from everyone to make very complete things.
I indeed forgot about Bonaventura. There has been some rumor (which I do not believe a single bit about) that on its way to the Scrapyards in China or Korea, Bonaventura was swapped with Viraat… They are of the same class and Viraat just had a bad accident before. So, there are people saying that in fact the old Viraat was sent to the scrapyard and Bonaventura is the current Viraat. Again, I don’t believe that because too many people would know about it and I think it would be very hard to just change a carrier in Mid-ocean or get it unseen in your port to swap it…

Didn’t know about the Argentinean new carrier, but the ongoing pilot training did make me suspicious about it. Nice to know now.

As for Osumi, it is in fact an “old” statement from Jane’s Combat Ships, I think some two years ago. Maybe it was with the Harrier in mind. I have a model of Shimokita, second of this class with transparent deck. It’s located here, although it was one of my first models and hence seriously messed up:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/am/ijn/shimokita-700-rv/rv-index.html

would be nice to see some pics of that mate

I can’t say I wasn’t alittle surprised to see Sue’s and Trackers doing touch and goes off the USS Ronald Reagan during her around the horn trip to San Diego! Hat’s off to Argentina FLY NAVY 😎

Hey Scoot, how you been mate?
Mate they have been upgrading their Trackers like there’s no tomorrow, so I guess they want to keep them, besides flying them off the SP is also proof of them wanting to keep them.

As for the SuE’s, well it goes back to what I said before mate, what other a/s are there out there small enough to replace the SuE’s and Skyhawks? I don’t think your country is going to offer F-35’s to them, nor will the poms offer their used F/A-2’s to them (not after what happened).

Conclussion, I guess they will soldier on with their SuE’s or maybe even fix their new Fightinghawks back up to carrier standards.

If, Argentina is going to acquire a small carrier in the 15-20k size. What aircraft is she going to employ? Wouldn’t the current Sue and Tracker be to old and to large for such a small ship?

BME: That’s right mate, but both are being offered with capability to use VSTOL planes, which Australia is going to get in the form of F-35B’s and Spain is going to use it’s Harrier 2+’s on the LHD’s which it has specified in the request to Izar.

Sev: A couple more points, sorry.
1. Canada also had a Carrier: the HMCS Bonaventure, which they also got rid of

2. ADA pilots are not only training with their Trackers on A-12, but also their SuE pilots are as well mate and their Helo pilots.

3. Where did you hear about the Osumi’s getting the extentions? Can you link me to a news site? I only ask because these ships are too small for F-35 ops, even if they do put a ski jump on them. The main prob is how wide the Island is, it’s too wide for F-35’s to make a running start for the ski jump.

4. Yes Argentina is planing a new carrier:
As reported in “The Navy October-December 2002 Vol 64 No. 4 on page 23 in the Flash Traffic section, Argentina is looking for a new carrier in the 15k- 20k tonneage range under a project called “Plan Apollo”. God knows where they are going to get the money.

Can: Mate I was in the RAN for two years (technically- was seconded to other navies during my service). My Father was in the Army, I had applied for the army but I was young and never got in, pitty, but our Army is cool now, with the comming Tigers and MRH-90’s, wish I could be happy about the Abrams tanks we’re getting as well, but I can’t, though the support vechuiles are great.

Spain has one LHD coming, not a carrier.

And Izar is offering a couple of LHD´s to Australia

I know about Clemenceau. Which dumb*ss thinks you can use spare parts of such an old piece of junk for a new nuclear carrier. Clemenceau was btw still visible in Toulon two years ago. I suppose now the scrapping will be finished. Or maybe they’re just preserving the hulk untill the Brazilians need the parts.

Spanish one coming? Didn’t know about that.

San Giorgio is indeed an alternative, but I only mentioned Japan as a possible nation. Italy has real carriers, so no need to “assume” that they can use their amphibs as carriers. Then again, you should also mention the HMS Ocean and all the other nations with such amphibs. But for Japan, I meant, it is the most obvious that they are looking for some carrierforce and there were rumors that they would extend the deck of the Ohsumis forward and add a Ski jump to that part of the ship, making it easy to operate any kind of V/STOL.

Melbourne was the latest. I think the Dutch had one before Doorman too, but no use of mentioning all the carriers here. Otherwise we would be busy for a long time. They lost their CV power by scrapping these carriers, not by scrapping their predecessors.
Argentina still trains pilots, I think in the Tracker aircraft, onboard the Sao Paulo now. There is some kind of agreement, although I don’t know what they want to achieve with that. Planning a new carrier? Neh!

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Can: no worries mate, actually Melbourne was my real love, she was the reason I joined the navy, ever since I saw her docked in Woolloomaloo with Skyhawks and Trackers Wessex and Seakings on her decks back in the mid 70’s (me being a kid back then) I knew I wanted to be in the military (my father was in the military as well). I wanted to fly those Skyhawks and lost all my drive in 83 when I watched her getting towed from the reserve slips in Atoll Bight.

Ja,
how long did you serve in the navy?…its good to see someone with the same passion as me, but I want to join the army instead and I LOVE Australian military history.

Ja- Spain is going to build a second carrier? :rolleyes:

Can: no worries mate, actually Melbourne was my real love, she was the reason I joined the navy, ever since I saw her docked in Woolloomaloo with Skyhawks and Trackers Wessex and Seakings on her decks back in the mid 70’s (me being a kid back then) I knew I wanted to be in the military (my father was in the military as well). I wanted to fly those Skyhawks and lost all my drive in 83 when I watched her getting towed from the reserve slips in Atoll Bight.

In the end I did join and gwent the other way, if I couldn’t fight above the oceans, then I’d fight below them 😉 I have collected books (of which I have volumes) memoribilia and anything going, on Melbourne, she was a fine ship which had a proud history. Carriers are my true passion!

Severodvinsk: just a couple of corrections mate;

Clemenceau scrapped and used for spare parts

It should be pointed out here that the spares are going to Brazil to keep Sao Paulo (ex Foch) running, the only thing compatible off Clem was the ships prop, which CdG needed when her new, highly advanced *cough* prop broke, apart from that nothing else is compatible.

Spain (one in service)

And one to come

Italy (one in service, one building)

If you quoted the Amphibs of Japan, then why didn’t you quote the amphibs of Italy which are actually a bit bigger than their Japanese counterparts? ever heard of the San Giorgio class?

Finally mate Melbourne wasn’t Australia’s only carrier, she was the fourth in our service, and you might as well go down on record as saying that there are two coming as we will select the final bidder either late this year or early next with delivery in 2007

It´s far easy put “25 de Mayo” than “Veinticinco de Mayo”, and has a better spelling 😉

The Netherlands also used to have a carrier. The Karel Doorman. It was sold to Brazil I think.
So, now, to put them in a list:
USA
UK
France (one nuclear, Clemenceau scrapped and used for spare parts)
Russia (one in service/doing trials)
Italy (one in service, one building)
Spain (one in service)
Brazil (one in service)
Thailand (one in service)
India (one in service, one bought)
Japan (small amphibs might be used to operate Harriers and certainly the new planned DDH)

Lost powers:
Argentina (Vinceinto de Mayo),
Australia (Melbourne),
Netherlands (Karel Doorman)
Kuznetsov:

Admiral Kuznetsov has left for the sea
20.08.2004 17:26
According to the head of the training dept. of the Northern Navy Rear Admiral Agafonov the main task of the crew is to test sailing properties of the ship, adjust navigational and radio technical equipment, measure physical fields of the ship and its maneuverability elements as well as preparing for the deck flights. 12 older pilots will work with the 12 young. The main crew of ships has successfully completed firing missile and artillery complexes Kortik and Kinzhal. Admiral Kuznesov is to pass the second round of the after-repair tests and perform “in order” operation with other ships. Then it will be included into the force of permanent readiness.

In the early 80’s, the Fraser government were discussing with the British government, the possibility of buying the Carrier HMS Ark Royal (the last of the class and the only one not needed). There came a change of government and in June of 82 Melbourne was retired and July 83 she was towed to China to be broken up.

Broken up?!!! Damn! Damn! Damn!

Instead of doing that the Australian government could’ve have put it in a naval museum somewhere, I think its important that Australia preserve the ship for the sake of history, instead of sending to China to be broken up!

By the way Ja, thanks for the info.

Just wondering if anyone out there has any of the design concepts for carriers over the ages, I’m looking for a specific one that was offered for the CVNX-1 deal, but I’m interested in also looking at the older British designs of Queen Elizabeth classand Malta Class.

Can; lets sort this mess out mate, here are a few things you left out.

Aircraft carriers in Australia have a very sad history, in 1964 HMAS Melbourne collided with a destroyer during an exercise off Jervis Bay, and in the 1980s Australia decided not to replace the ship and the RAN is without an aircraft carrier strike force.

Yes the V Class destroyer HMAS Voyager lost hands when the Carrier collided with it during a night training excercise off the coast of Nowra, lives were lost. The skipper was cleared of any wrong doing (infact it was found to be the skipper of the destroyers fault, he turned into the Carrier), after a three years stint fixing the bow, she put back to sea under the same skipper and again collided with another destroyer in similar circumstances. USS Frank E. Evans lost 74 hands in the South China Sea while on patrol and again it was the destroyers fault.

Here’s a full account of the inncident Melbourne and the Destroyers collision.

In the early 80’s, the Fraser government were discussing with the British government, the possibility of buying the Carrier HMS Ark Royal (the last of the class and the only one not needed). There came a change of government and in June of 82 Melbourne was retired and July 83 she was towed to China to be broken up.