catching Bin Laden!!!

I guess close to 300 hundred pakistani soldiers have died in dealing with these guys, in and around wazirastan area, and yet there are people who think Pakistan is doing nothing.

Grey Area

Perhaps the UK should instruct the Americans about how to proceed diplomatically in the Afghan/Pakistan region with the help of say Russia, Iran, Pakistan. (India ?) Surely the application of the superior diplomatic skills that are now solving the WMD issues with Iran could be put to good use and Pakistan could then be persuaded to throw in Mr.BL as a bonus. I am sure France and Germany could help as well. After all, it was the British who drew all the lines on the maps back in the good old days when you could do that without any consideration of the cultural/religious issues and later, simply walk away.

Sauron

It doesn’t really matter whether you “go after Pakistan completely” or not. The USA would be seen to be turning on an ally – and an Islamic one at that. Confirming, in the eyes of many, the accusations levelled by hardline Islamic organisations and inevitably boosting the credibility of the latter in many places around the world.

What impact do you think a US attack would have on the current Pakistani Goverment?

If that Government fell, who do you think would fill the resulting vacuum? The Quakers? 🙂

And who knows where the nukes would end up then……..

Yes. Unless, of course, they want to act like actual allies in the war on terrorism and round up all of the insurgents along the borders in and around Waziristan. If not… Pakistan is an ally of convenience in this case. We tolerate the Saudis too, and they fund all sorts of terrorism. Saudi, at least, offers something in the form of oil. Pakistan offers an apparent policy of unwillingness to deal with the insurgents in their space. I’m not saying we go after Pakistan completely, either.

A quick glance at a map show Pakistan to be Afghanistan’s Southern neighbour.

So, Sean, you’re advocating armed aggression against a nuclear-armed and officially “friendly” nation? The nearest thing to a US ally in the immediate region, in fact, and a nation with close ties to China?

Oh yes. That sounds like a plan, all right……….. 😮

We all tend to critasize and what not but what would be the action plan to catching the dude in yur guys’s veiws..

Completely and totally stop dealing with the Al Qaeda supporters south of Afghanistan and go in after the remaining Taliban and AQ elements?

It’s not a theory, Sauron.

A “bogeyman”, preferably foreign, who will come and get you if you don’t do exactly as the Government says is a basic tool of statecraft dating back at least as far as the Roman Empire.

Used successfully, this tool gives a government a free hand at home and abroad as they can portray any action – even actions that are illegal under the existing legislative and constitutional framework – as essential for national well-being and blacken any dissenting voices as traitors and enemy sympathisers.

For this to be effective, a government has to be able to convince their subjects that their chosen bogeyman is a clear and present danger to their personal and immediate safety and well-being.

Karadzic and Mladic, for all their iniquity, could never be credibly presented as such by US or UK governments. No US or UK citizens have died at their hands, for one thing.

Bin Laden, however, fits the bill nicely.

Well put.. My words..

It’s not a theory, Sauron.

A “bogeyman”, preferably foreign, who will come and get you if you don’t do exactly as the Government says is a basic tool of statecraft dating back at least as far as the Roman Empire.

Used successfully, this tool gives a government a free hand at home and abroad as they can portray any action – even actions that are illegal under the existing legislative and constitutional framework – as essential for national well-being and blacken any dissenting voices as traitors and enemy sympathisers.

For this to be effective, a government has to be able to convince their subjects that their chosen bogeyman is a clear and present danger to their personal and immediate safety and well-being.

Karadzic and Mladic, for all their iniquity, could never be credibly presented as such by US or UK governments. No US or UK citizens have died at their hands, for one thing.

Bin Laden, however, fits the bill nicely.

Guys,

This is a pretty heavy subject to discuss over Christmas!!

Grey Area

Does your theory about live boggymen also apply to Karadzic and Mladic who have been on the loose longer than Bin Laden?

Sauron

We all tend to critasize and what not but what would be the action plan to catching the dude in yur guys’s veiws..

P.S.- only seious ideas please.. :dev2:

I don’t criticise and I don’t care. Bin Laden’s group may have brought destruction to many places and killed alot of innocent people, but just compare that to the destruction cause by the USA and it’s superpower military. Their bombs can killed many more people then the Islamic terrorist groups could, but the US could make their crimes look like child’s play because they possesed more advanced technology.

That’s pretty much what I was saying, bring_it_on.

Where’s the disagreement? :confused:

I disagree with u there grey area..Being paraded on TV and getting a public trial will only add to the bloody legacy of bin-laden..He’d be a martyr who even when captured defied the west and tool whatever punishement they had to offer…As a corpse which is sitting in a rubbel of a cave somewhere in the afgan-pakistan border atleast u avoid depicting him as a post 911 hero(to possible convert-followers) ..

He’s a lot more use to the US and UK governments as a live bogeyman at large than he ever could be as a captured and vanquished adversary.

To catch such a man is sonething that will require a lot of patience and consistent hard work from US and allied SF. Little by little, Al Qaeda is loosing the fight it began the moment it organized and initiated Sept 11th/01. However, the capture of their leader has been something that has alluded those hunting him since.
In my opinion, I believe that until the day the Americans can be trusted by those in Afghanistan, they on’t be able to get the necessary intel they need to nab this guy! As much as Afghanis have gained freedom and now live under a democracy, albeit a corrupted one, they still see the Americans as people they can’t fully trust because of how things are unravelling in the Middle East. HUMINT is a large part of any combat operations, mostly when you are looking for someone of that caliber. In the mean time, I don’t think that the US can do anything differently than they are now! This isn’t something that’s going to happen overnight. The rumors of Bin Laden’s death, in my opinion, are just that, rumors! Until a body can be produced, we must assume the man is still alive. I know he isn’t getting any younger and he does have supposed health relates issues and there is a possibility that he could be dead. However, this is a man who has remained, again in my opinion, one step ahead of the opposition and will continue to do so as long as he remains vigilant and aware of his surroundings!
Trust and HUMINT will be the deciding factors on whether or not he will ever be caught and patience is the order of the day on this subject! It will take a few more headached before he might be captured.

In all honesty, I believe he’s dead now. Sure, those tapes might emerge every now and again but they could be pre recorded or could have been done by a lookalike or someone in disguise.

Reply edited by Mod.

If you really must indulge in racial stereotyping, F-18 Hamburger, go and indulge in it elsewhere.

It will not be tolerated in here.

Consider yourself warned.

GA

In all honesty, I believe he’s dead now. Sure, those tapes might emerge every now and again but they could be pre recorded or could have been done by a lookalike or someone in disguise.