CESSNA F150L Down near M1 motorway in Nottinghamshire

Although beyond economic (commercial) repair, NADZ is in fact being brought back to life on a spare time basis down at Booker. It may be, if the engine is save-able some clue will appear during the zero timing.

But no, curious though I was and still am, I wasn’t in the mood to sponsor an expensive autopsy.

Moggy

Speaking of AAIB, this is the one on my incident.

So it was not possible/feasible/financially worth while determining the cause of the engine failure?

Is it just me, or am I correct in thinking people are so concerned about someone else’s perceived sensitivities, we are killing objective debate. …………………>>>>>>>

I rest my case. Please discuss.

Bob

I agree. A chap I know really gets hot under the collar when anyone speculates as to the cause of an accident.
Whether or not there are fatalities.

Speaking of AAIB, this is the one on my incident.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Vans%20RV-4%20G-NADZ%2007-14.pdf

Moggy

On which subject somebody posted an interesting statistic on the FLYER forum, to the effect that Australian research showed that partial engine failure and thus reduced aircraft performance was more likely to lead to a fatal outcome than total engine failure.

When it goes suddenly silent you push the stick forward as a reflex. If the performance merely drops off or becomes progressively compromised, it seems that attempting to squeeze out that last few hundred metres to an ‘ideal’ landing sight is too great a temptation, leading to the all too familiar stall/spin at low level.

Moggy

Is it just me, or am I correct in thinking people are so concerned about someone else’s perceived sensitivities, we are killing objective debate. As Moggy C has inferred, we can and should learn from our own experiences. Kill that debate and you kill that vital learning phase. If you do not remember the past you will definitely repeat its errors some times and more often fatally.

In my opinion debate is being pushed on the back burner and if you do not agree with the common or PC thread then it appears you should not have a voice at all. This is dangerous territory and often leads to chaos. As long as the voice does not imply vindictiveness etc. and is cited as one’s own opinion, why should we question their right to express that opinion?

I am an ex- aircraft engineer of nearly 40 yrs and I do not want to desecrate anyone’s passing. I have lost too many good friends, acquaintances to aircraft accidents. Elgar’s Nimrod variation holds a very significant part of my awareness.

I rest my case. Please discuss.

Bob

And equally I was delighted to share any and every bit of information.

Had I augured in, nobody who would have been the greatly affected reads the forum, (i.e. immediate relatives, loved ones). I often think some of the post accident rubbish we read “I know the aircraft but I won’t release the information in case relative don’t know” is just a modern ‘correctness’

Let’s discuss, learn, criticise, comment.

It could save a life.

Moggy

Moggy, I agree with your comments. You openly discussed the events of that unhappy day totally unasked. You were quite within your rights to have said nothing but in the interests of aviation safety you posted it here for us all to see. If that leads to one more pilot understanding the value of timely decision making and one less accident you’ve done a useful thing. I’m a firm believer in learning from the mishaps that others suffer as I am not going to live long enough to make them all myself.

In the context of this thread though my condolences to family and friends of the two occupants. RIP

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-32230117

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/april_2015/cessna_f150l__g_yiii.cfm

AAIB report issued.

The victims are identified as experienced pilots.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-27911911

I still get a cold shiver every time I remember just how close I came to dying.

A big thanks to Dave, Phil and Rick my PPL instructors, whichever one of them it was that prompted me to do a standard cockpit check before setting off on a second, three or four minute circuit at my home field in benign conditions.

Moggy

The other point which is often missed is that it can take the AAIB anything up to 12 months to report as they are short-staffed. By which time, most of us will sadly have forgotten about the incident. In my case, I now tighten my straps to the point of near strangulation on takeoff following Moggie’s incident. A point which came up from Moggie’s posts soon after the accident.

Re 15

Charle, rather than ‘lending weight to your reservations’, my central point is that speculation can serve a very useful purpose.

Pace John and Moggy but thank you for lending weight to my reservations about speculation.

In view of the many concerns stressed above and not wishing to be pre-emptive, this is my purely speculative view of how this a/c met its end.

Whilst carrying out a turn at low level for whatever reason, photos of the crews home or other interesting point of interest the a/c stalled and spun in!!

end of…….

And equally I was delighted to share any and every bit of information.

Had I augured in, nobody who would have been the greatly affected reads the forum, (i.e. immediate relatives, loved ones). I often think some of the post accident rubbish we read “I know the aircraft but I won’t release the information in case relative don’t know” is just a modern ‘correctness’

Let’s discuss, learn, criticise, comment.

It could save a life.

Moggy

Charlie, yes, you are right. Some of the speculation you refer to is often lurid and – it seems to me – aimed at sensationalising serious events.

Using his rather unpleasant experience – he’s already referred to his engine failure, I, among many others, asked Moggy many questions about the circumstances of the event; his actions; his thoughts; did he have time for this, that or something else, and so on.

I could have gone on but, instead stopped, not wanting to exceed any limits of good taste or intrusiveness. My sole intention, and that of others – which, I’m sure Moggy understood, was to glean any scrap of information which might stand me or, someone else in good stead sometime in the future.

That’s my illustration of one benefit that can come from speculation.

As a non-license holder I am bound to respect that point of view in relation to your own experiences.

My distaste probably stems from near hysterical exchanges in Historic following an often fatal accident and loss of an historic aircraft, making wild assumptions about the causes.

Lets leave the investigation to the AAIB please.

Was this meant to be pre-emptive? I can’t see any speculation ahead of your post.

I personally see nothing wrong with posting news of, and then discussing aviation incidents. Certainly anybody who wishes can feel free to discuss any incident I have in future to their heart’s content.

After my recent EFATO some clown did place a post on FLYER suggesting that my enjoyment of performance departures and the testosterone-heavy nature of the aircraft reg meant it was obviously all my fault (despite my having gone to pains to stress that when doing circuits at the home base I always go into ‘pottering’ mode so as not to annoy the locals.) It just made me laugh.

Moggy

Re 7

Permit me to go a little further. Speculation is a bit like gossip or tittle tattle, and performs no useful function other than discussing the variable possibilities attached to the particular subject.

It certainly comes within the limits of Forum discussion. I guess that most of us who visit General Aviation or Historic Aviation are license holders with a particular attachment to gleaning any information that might assist in dealing with a future aviation related emergency.

The inherent safety and stability of most GA aircraft, especially something like the Cessna in question, can reduce our sensitivity to certain limits imposed by the flight envelope and human performance.

Very often a stray comment arising as a consequence of speculation can ring alarm bells and remind us of the need to always remain aware. I accept that you have a different opinion.

Speculation, as long as it remains just that, is not necessarily a bad thing.

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/dead-following-plane-crash-near-M1/story-21238936-detail/story.html