Charles E Brown

As far as I know, the Charles E.Brown photographs ARE catalogued by the RAF M. I went there in 1985 to select some photos for my book, “Aerobatic Teams if the World” and they had contact prints in albums of many of the photos. The Museum staff also had all the glass negatives catalogued and showed some of them to me, but THEY had to handle them and wouldn’t let me touch them. Only authors and researchers with a genuine requirement for prints were allowed access to them at that time, so I don’t know what the situation is now.
At the back of the “Camera Above the Clouds” books is a list of negative numbers, so you can order prints illustrated in the books from the RAFM.
Charles died a few years ago, aged 90 I think.

Hope this helps.

I admire Charles Brown’s photo work and to that extent a few years ago myself and the pilot of the Firefly here in the states (Eddie Kurdziel) tried to replicate one of his photos, the one of the early model Firefly (radiator opening under the nose) doing a knife edge pass behind the camera ship….unfortunately our results differed slightly as I was photographing from the back seat of a T-6 and we did’nt have sufficient speed for the Firefly to REALLY maneuver…I would reckon that instead of the Firefly doing a defensive scissors and winding up close aboard on one side of the T-6 where I tried to shoot it knife edge, Charles Brown probably just had the Firefly fly slightly above and to one side of his camera ship and then break HARD to the left (as depicted in his photo) and he captured the image he wanted…and it would’nt be as hairy to do as the scissors, which at the time Eddie and I thought would be the easiest way to capture a similar image…
Anyway…he has done lots of great work and I look forward to seeing more of it being released as it becomes available…anyone know if Charles is still alive or not?

Mark

Wonderful photographs, thanks for sharing them.

Great album, John!
Similarly my stepmother threw out all my Dad’s memorabilia when he died – mostly Fleet Air Arm photos from the 1930s onwards. I was too late returning from Sweden!

I have one photo by Charles Brown on my ‘rare photos’ album at http://community.webshots.com/album/39189636pyNZQd showing a rather excellent air to air shot of the Gannet from 1953. These photos are the ‘originals’ given to me as promo items in the early/mid 1950’s, I did have other memorabilia including a signed letter from Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC that I sold, I wonder how much that one is worth now.

I also had the 1936 or 1937 Janes All The World Aircraft Book, a huge book for its day and it had the prototype Spitfire featured, on return from Singapore in 1960 I asked my mother what had happened to the book, she had thrown it in the dustbin because it looked old!!

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Unfortunately the only post advertised by the RAF Museum just now is for a “Visitor Service Assistant”.
I always wondered what the official name was for those chaps standing in the corner looking bored!

“. . . pending suitably trained staff.”

Can I be the first to volunteer?!

Can I be first to second you, PL?

“. . . pending suitably trained staff.”

Can I be the first to volunteer?!

I believe they were all catalogued – in the good old sense of a typed listing on paper: frame no. plus subject (usually serials and people’s names quoted, not just “a Spitfire and its pilot”). Availability is another matter – I think at the moment they are in the process of digitalisation, which might mean that noone can see them at all.

The RAFM website says that no copies (digital or otherwise) are available pending suitably trained staff.

Good that they’re safe; frustrating not to have instant access from our impatient keyboards.

Also driving with a Griffon VI at the time so I’m not sure what it makes her other then a test bed.

I would say this Spitfire was never anything other than a test bed. There was a couple of them like this: N3297, DP851. Often labelled as “prototype this or that”, but in fact more like what we call now “technology demonstrators” than real prototypes for any particular version.

Clive Gosling flew MB882, the last XII the same day for photos as well so DP845 wasn’t being used for XII work. I imagine it was geared towards Seafire XV work at that point

Quite!

RAF Museum but not necessarily all catalogued.
Mark

I believe they were all catalogued – in the good old sense of a typed listing on paper: frame no. plus subject (usually serials and people’s names quoted, not just “a Spitfire and its pilot”). Availability is another matter – I think at the moment they are in the process of digitalisation, which might mean that noone can see them at all.

Surely DP845 was never really a MkIIX. I think it was originally going to be the prototype MkIV(?) but got overtaken by events and was always a testbed, and Jeffrey Quill’s favourite Spitfire.

Take a look at the non standard clipped wing filler inserts.

Mark

Also driving with a Griffon VI at the time so I’m not sure what it makes her other then a test bed. Not really a prototype XII anymore 🙂

Clive Gosling flew MB882, the last XII the same day for photos as well so DP845 wasn’t being used for XII work. I imagine it was geared towards Seafire XV work at that point

Clive flying MB882 for Charles Brown

Dan

I’ll give you a tip.

Got copies of his DP845/ MB882 photos from the RAF Museum. This being a scan of DP845 banking away, Clive Gosling at the controls, October 16, 1943.

Makes for a nice avatar too 🙂

Dan

Take a look at the non standard clipped wing filler inserts.

Mark

Got copies of his DP845/ MB882 photos from the RAF Museum. This being a scan of DP845 banking away, Clive Gosling at the controls, October 16, 1943.

Makes for a nice avatar too 🙂

Dan

This is all that’s on the website: http://www.rafmuseum.com/hendon/collections/photographic/charles_brown.cfm

Compare with the web-friendly Canadian Aviation Museum Collection: http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/collections/image_bank/manusearch.cfm

Thanks all,

Not catalogued means, presumably, no access to regular folks.

The books you refer to are called “Camera Above The Clouds” and were released in three volumes. They are wonderful books and if you haven’t got them, then I would thoroughly recommend them to any historic aeroplane enthusiast.

Mark is right is saying that the negs are now kept at the RAF Museum, hopefully they will all be catalogued one day!

Cheers

There must be a fair few!!

I seem to recall an article on him in Aeroplane or Flypast a few years ago for some reason. One of his first pics I think was a downed hot air balloon(?).

Here’s a classic one of his….

…took some of the best air-to-air pics of his era (and some of his other stuff was pretty good). They used to appear in almost every aircraft book and there was even a collection by him published (any good?)

What has happened to the orginal negs? Are they with the RAF Museum / IWM / private / other / lost…

RAF Museum but not necessarily all catalogued.

Mark