China executes 10,000 a year

Originally posted by kev35
Hand.

I would never suggest that you would support the actions of the SS at Oradour. My point was that your disapproval of the death penalty seems to lie at odds with the history of your country’s recent past. Especially that you have now told us you grew up near there. Would you really be able to find it in your heart to be lenient to those of the SS (Liebstandarte or Das Reich?) who destroyed Oradour and its inhabitants in 1944?

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Regards,

kev35

I don’t want to restart a death penalty debate , but if you ask me well: I have had along my life a long thinking about this topic. My country abolished the death penalty in 1981 and I have lived in a country with and without.

I just think the death penalty is unuseful. Look at the USA: the state who executes the most (Texas) is the state where the crime ratio is the highest.

My opinion is that death penalty is babaric and a civilized country can’t use it.However we have to have very painful and unlimited jail sentences.

“If they’re executing 10,000 every year that just about finishes any argument you might have that the death sentence is a deterrent. Otherwise they would need to execute less and less people each year. On the other hand, it might be a suitable punishment for their crimes, but that’s something different.”

i see the logic behind ur argument, but the reality is that china simply isnt executing enough!

the percentage of the number of criminals who are executed only represents a small minority of all who commit such crimes, and as such the vast majority fancy their chances of not being caught, and so keep on doing what they do.

the main problem is the size of china’s population, and how poor most of them still are. with all the growth that china has seen in the past decade and talk of china ‘stealing’ western jobs, it can be easy to forget the tens of millions that were left unemployed after china’s commitment to open up its markets to the outside world. in reality, china lost more jobs then was created by its economic boom, and the imbalance is far from being addressed.

in the meantime, u have vast numbers of unemployed with no state benefits and little chance of getting a job. also, as so many ppl are so poor, they have little of value to loose if they die or gets put in prison, so the stakes for them are much lower, and so they are more willing to take risks u or i would never think of taking…

also, with large numbers of ppl entering the ‘crime business’ competition also gets tougher, and more and more brutal means are used to settle problems. this is the main case of the kinds of offences which are punishable by death.

another unwelcome side effect is that as rival gangs gets more brutal with each other, their members become used to that level of violence, and that is reflected in the methods they use to tackle innocent victims, and so commit even more crimes punishable by death.

china’s legal system is also not without blame, as it lacks a get out cluse for ppl who have commited capital offences – ie, if u commite an offence punishable by death, u get the death penalty if caught and convicted. so if someone kills one person, then they become less bothered about killing again as he cant be punished anymore for the extra offences, nor can he redeme himself for the first offence he commited.

its a very difficult period in the development of nation, and the only real solution is to try and fast forward past this period so that ppl have more to hold onto and have more of their basic demands met. then ppl will be less wiling to take risks, and crime should start to drop, with it, the number of executions.

Hand.

I would never suggest that you would support the actions of the SS at Oradour. My point was that your disapproval of the death penalty seems to lie at odds with the history of your country’s recent past. Especially that you have now told us you grew up near there. Would you really be able to find it in your heart to be lenient to those of the SS (Liebstandarte or Das Reich?) who destroyed Oradour and its inhabitants in 1944?

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Regards,

kev35

By the way , Oradour/ Glane ids next to the place I grew up and my mom is still living there.
If you guys pass by , take the time to visit this place. The SS burned the place in Aug 1944 and killed almost every body in town. The French authority decided to keep the place “as it is” and it’s a big emotion to walk in the street of this poor little town.

I don’t get your point Kev here!

Do you think that I would support in any way some kind of SS , Cinese dictator or whoever?

plawolf.

If they’re executing 10,000 every year that just about finishes any argument you might have that the death sentence is a deterrent. Otherwise they would need to execute less and less people each year. On the other hand, it might be a suitable punishment for their crimes, but that’s something different.

I respect Hand and Geforce’s views, but, in Hand’s case, I would refer him to Oradour-sur-Glane. Can he honestly tell me that he would try to rehabilitate the men of the SS for the crimes committed there?

As for Brenmcc, when people are trying to debate something seriously, grow up and use a little common sense. Unless you have something valid to contribute to the debate don’t say anything. The crass comments you make which you misguidedly think portray you to the forum as a great wit do exactly the opposite. Can characters like Brenmcc really represent the future for Britain?

This intellectual ‘dumbing down’ does not bode well for the future.

Regards,

kev35

“No – a colleague of mine recently photographed a couple of religious-maniac nutters who were going out to China to try and find homes elsewhere in the world for the abandoned baby GIRLS. Chinese families want boys – the old thinking was that a girl would marry and look after her husbands parents when they became frail and elderly, so with the one child doctrine the couple who had a girl-child would be alone with little help in their old age. Obviously if they could afford to pay a two child tax then they could afford to look after themselves into their old age too, but the people who can’t will be desperate for a baby boy – and the pictures from within China that my colleague had to copy showed the conditions that the discarded girl babies had to live and die in were much worse than in those infamous Romanian orphanages.
Sorry Multirole – if you were from Rwanda, Iraq, Pinochet-era Chile, or Stalinist era Russia, etc, would you be defending their history of crowd control too? – Nermal”

these are the choices of individuals, not the government, the one child policy helped to stop a bady-boom in its tracks. while some parents do go to extreme lengths to get a boy, the now more flexibale policy means that baby girls being aboandoned are extremely rare.

the fact of the matter is that those families that abandon baby girls are probably those who are so poor that they would have had to do it anyways even if they were allowed to have as many kids as they wished. there is little any gov could do about this except to increase the standard of living for all chinese so that fewer families are faced with that choice.

often, when children are abandoned, they are left in corwed places so that ppl can easily find them, and the vast majority are found and sent to orthanages, and ppl dont get to see that as its not dramatic enough.

i have no idea why some parents would choose to leave their own children where ppl are unlikely to find them, and i hold no sympathese for such ppl, but apparently every generation in very nation have such ppl, and there is little anyone else can do about them.:(

Originally posted by Multirole
Sure it does happen, male babies are left to die too. Show me a country where this doesnot occur. Poor countries with large populations simply have larger instances of this. Some families are so poor they can’t support even one child, the sex is irrelevant except boys are more likely to be adopted and less likely abandoned.

No – a colleague of mine recently photographed a couple of religious-maniac nutters who were going out to China to try and find homes elsewhere in the world for the abandoned baby [b]GIRLS[/b]. Chinese families want boys – the old thinking was that a girl would marry and look after her husbands parents when they became frail and elderly, so with the one child doctrine the couple who had a girl-child would be alone with little help in their old age. Obviously if they could afford to pay a two child tax then they could afford to look after themselves into their old age too, but the people who can’t will be desperate for a baby boy – and the pictures from within China that my colleague had to copy showed the conditions that the discarded girl babies had to live and die in were much worse than in those infamous Romanian orphanages.
Sorry Multirole – if you were from Rwanda, Iraq, Pinochet-era Chile, or Stalinist era Russia, etc, would you be defending their history of crowd control too? – Nermal

Originally posted by starjet
Speaking of abortion, I’m for it in certain cases. It’s a religious thing. Jewish people (like me) do not count an unborn child as a person. If someone will die if they give birth, we think an abortion is right- the Bible says “to save a life”. But if a teenage whore is pregnant, we don’t do the abortion there.

Ain’t no religious thing. Is murder. Cold blooded murder in the first degree. Of course there are medical reasons for killing a baby. But no religious. Nobody should practice the art of wordsmithing to justify the killing of a baby, esp in the Western countries, where we have shrinking and aging populations.

Originally posted by Flood
Thats alright then – those pictures of female babies left to die that were prevalent in the British (and probably world) press a couple of years ago were, as the Chinese ambassador claimed, nothing but vicious lies – like all the other things said over the years…(Or words to that effect).

Nothing is true at all…

Flood.

Sure it does happen, male babies are left to die too. Show me a country where this doesnot occur. Poor countries with large populations simply have larger instances of this. Some families are so poor they can’t support even one child, the sex is irrelevant except boys are more likely to be adopted and less likely abandoned.

You think an economically secure family would abandon their baby girl just so they could have a boy? Get real.

The way the media protrays this problem is as if you could wave a magic wand and China would be just like Western Europe. The only way this is going to be solved is to keep up economic development and reducing overpopulation.

“Who knows, although there are now and then nasty rumours about people being killed for their organs”

the ppl who do that are some of the ones who are exicuted if caught.

Speaking of abortion, I’m for it in certain cases. It’s a religious thing. Jewish people (like me) do not count an unborn child as a person. If someone will die if they give birth, we think an abortion is right- the Bible says “to save a life”. But if a teenage whore is pregnant, we don’t do the abortion there.

Tststs. There is a million abortions in the U.S. alone every single year for the last 30 years (since Roe/Wade). So chopping off some 10k heads isn’t that much in comparison. And there are people who surely deserve being killed/executed/murdered. Who knows, although there are now and then nasty rumours about people being killed for their organs, I wouldn’t utter any moral judgements on those 10k chopped off heads.

Originally posted by Multirole
What are you talking about, there is a 1.2:1 ratio in China compared to world average of 1.06:1. Hardly overwhelming. This will only improve women’s value in society thereby elevating their position. Even so it is widly known many female births go unreported and get raised by the grandparents.

Yet another media hysteria.

Thats alright then – those pictures of female babies left to die that were prevalent in the British (and probably world) press a couple of years ago were, as the Chinese ambassador claimed, nothing but vicious lies – like all the other things said over the years…(Or words to that effect).

Nothing is true at all…

Flood.

Originally posted by Flood
Anyway, the population will drop when nature takes control…
Why?
Coz you cannot maintain a growth in population when the overwelming majority of the population is male…

Flood.

What are you talking about, there is a 1.2:1 ratio in China compared to world average of 1.06:1. Hardly overwhelming. This will only improve women’s value in society thereby elevating their position. Even so it is widly known many female births go unreported and get raised by the grandparents.

Yet another media hysteria.

Anyway, the population will drop when nature takes control…
Why?
Coz you cannot maintain a growth in population when the overwelming majority of the population is male…

Flood.

Originally posted by google
…it seems that even executions don’t dissuade people from horrendously violent crimes in China…

Maybe because, apparently, only the really serious crimes and the resultant execution are publicised…

Flood.

Actually, farmers are encouraged to have more than one child.

10,000 a year isn’t that much considering that the US executes about 65 persons a year, and the Chinese population is about 6 times that, and homicidal crime doesn’t scale linearly.

Although it seems that even executions don’t dissuade people from horrendously violent crimes in China- I suppose that a rising standard of living would do much more to dissuade than a bullet to the head ever would.

China’s birthrate is between that of US and EU. It is not uncommon to have two kids inspite of the one-child policy. You can now legally have multiple children if you’re willing to pay a special tax. Stories of forced abortion are anomalies far from standard reproduction enforcement procedures. They are quite sensational I admit. Though I’ve not heard such annecdotes in recent years. Charging for the bullet after executions is no longer practiced, hasn’t been for decades. But the stories they do make good telling.

A society that does not execute murderers have no respect for human life in my opinon. Even with a new government the Chinese people will continue to support the present level of executions. Most people think not enough criminals are getting the death penalty.

The best way to reduce death penalty cases is to reduce crime, not punishment.

But Brennmcc1 has an ‘e’!

Marshmellows?

Flood.