China fueling Naval Arms Race???

In my un experienced opinion small ships in flotillas are the way to go, costs less to man built and repair but costs more to try and find all ships. Even if you find them you can never be too sure so always remains a doubt…

How many harpoons or antiship missiles could you stick in a pkg?

Looks good what say 40mm forward mount

Some ships that could meet this thinking for Asian market
PKG class patrol vessel cost $38mn length 62 m speed 41kn armament 1 76mm gun 4 anti ship missiles
Frassmar OPV 80 cost $38mn length 80m speed 25kn armament 1 40mm gun
Both allow 25 ships for about $1bn and offer good flexibility

The PKG is not a coastguard hull. The Fassmer is but there are a few options. Me, for a low end patroller, I’d go with the below at $22mn a go modified with a medium cal forward mount and a couple of 50 cals:

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6637:fact-file-sarah-baartman-class-environmental-offshore-patrol-vessel&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159

Some ships that could meet this thinking for Asian market

PKG class patrol vessel cost $38mn length 62 m speed 41kn armament 1 76mm gun 4 anti ship missiles
[ATTACH=CONFIG]219457[/ATTACH]
Frassmar OPV 80 cost $38mn length 80m speed 25kn armament 1 40mm gun
[ATTACH=CONFIG]219458[/ATTACH]
Both allow 25 ships for about $1bn and offer good flexibility

ah there was a link sorry, ill read it… links broken maybe but i managed to find the article i think through google search..

[url]http://www.warshipsifr.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id…

Just read it, it under estimates China and its readiness too much..for that matter of the BRIC nations.. Otherwise a nice piece. China has been studying the USN doctrin significantly and also operational methods it may not have perfected its own methods but that doesnt mean they will not be any good at all.

some recent news of the Chinese coast gaurd activities, I would say that the Chinese know exactly how to control the seas and that they are already mature, http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/26/china-coastguard-confronts…

also do not understand the point in the article mentioning the French Navy in the Indian Oceon..Major players in the Indian Oceon will be USN, PLAN and the Indian Navy.

Lets see what Air Sea Battle finally turns out to be thats going to have a big effect.. at the moment even the 10 people in the USN who are forming this probably dont know what it means.

USNI.org makes for some interesting reading but you have to take into account that they are trying to scare people into funding more ships… http://www.usni.org/print/27169

maybe a pinch of salt should be taken with this as the Royal Navy is still evolving… but interesting read none the less … https://medium.com/war-is-boring/410c3a93ad1f

One more read… http://www.informationdissemination.net/2013/04/strength-in-numbers-rem…

This the last one is more interesting and although the USN might not follow it, could be interesting for other navies in South-east Asia and east Asia to follow. Its almost what the Chinese are already doing very effectively but building a combined coast gaurd with lots of small unarmed boat which although can not fight can ocupy land (occupy sea space) and create a threat of escalation to military if they were ever to be fired upon etc..

furthermore as a lot of the pacific and Indian oceon is dotted with Islands that could be used as hiding or hop of points it makes more sense in the Asian context to use cheaper more affordable (or even just affordable) ships to deny/confuse/keep busy a force which has spent loads on its boats…

Matt I take it you did not take the time to read the article I high lighted as it talks about China’s navy’s need to control areas it sees as important and how in time as it learns to use this force it will start to match the USN it this region

ah there was a link sorry, ill read it… links broken maybe but i managed to find the article i think through google search..

http://www.warshipsifr.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=125:is-this-the-end-of-western-naval-supremacy&catid=36:commentary&Itemid=65

Matt I take it you did not take the time to read the article I high lighted as it talks about China’s navy’s need to control areas it sees as important and how in time as it learns to use this force it will start to match the USN it this region

Link’s broken.

And another good read, where simply put, things are not as simple as people like to see it

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/139609/christian-le-miere/chinas-unarmed-arms-race

Good article..nice read.. I read that just yesterday…Robert d. Kaplan is another writer to watch for some very well put together articles…
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/discussions/interviews/qa-with-robert-kaplan-on-china

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/66985/robert-d-kaplan/monsoon-the-indian-ocean-and-the-future-of-american-power
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/discussions/interviews/qa-with-robert-kaplan-on-geopolitics-in-the-indian-ocean

Tempest, no one is claiming that Asia has taken over in naval terms,army I would say yes, I am just saying that everyone has excepted that Asia is having a slow arms race because they know that china will get even more bullish and brash soon as it thinks its got an advantage..same has happened on the land border.

It’s only natural for china to have a big navy it’s almost it’s destiny…but the countries surrounding it are worried about the attitude of the PLAN when it does mature…it’s already behaving pretty borishly according to some countries perceptions.

Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Philippines are all bracing them selves…

Also lets be accurate its not western naval power but the USN…. And that’s not going to decline so fast as the RN or other navies…

Link’s broken.

And another good read, where simply put, things are not as simple as people like to see it

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/139609/christian-le-miere/chinas-unarmed-arms-race

Sorry Matt head over to warship magazine site under commentary is an article is this the end of western naval supremacy from the 28th of June 2013 this is just a few lines from a very good article

It is wrong therefore to draw the conclusion that right now is the moment when the East surpasses Western naval supremacy. Measuring naval capability in platform numbers alone is not the way to assess the potential fighting effectiveness of a nation state.

http://http://www.economist.com/node/21551056

Nice read…

This thread is going off course ..

Simply put china is causing the arms race in Asia

Yeah, the US def did not suffer a complete setback in Vietnam. All the goals it hoped to achieve in Vietnam did not fail miserably.

It won. America STRONG!!!!
This is an image of victory.

That is an image of what happens when you sign a pact with Democrats.

If you have even a clue, probably not, of what happened in Washington. The Democrats REFUSED to send the aid promised years before.
End of story, end of of South Vietnam.
Had even the airstrikes been allowed the North Viets would have run out of caskets but the Liberal ****-bags in Washington refused even that.

You were not around then but ignorance is bliss.

that must have been a first. winning all the battles and still losing the war takes some doing

but I would agree the biggest enemy the US forces had in Vietnam was the US government

That’s the fact jack.

Only your ignorance of what went on before you were born exceeds any supposed denial.

Yeah, the US def did not suffer a complete setback in Vietnam. All the goals it hoped to achieve in Vietnam did not fail miserably.

It won. America STRONG!!!!

This is an image of victory.

that must have been a first. winning all the battles and still losing the war takes some doing

but I would agree the biggest enemy the US forces had in Vietnam was the US government I mean sending 5 F-105’s with 1 bomb each just to get the sortie count for the day wow

The amount of denial in this thread is amazing.

By this standard, the USSR, uhh, didn’t lose A-stan, we just retreated….

Only your ignorance of what went on before you were born exceeds any supposed denial.

You’re a ******* moron.

One’s rhetoric reveals one’s intellect and your rhetoric revealed the level of intellect I expected.

That is where you are so very wrong.
What you are saying is the new politically correct bs that politicians who do not fight in wars use.

The point of war is, always has been and always will be to kill as many enemies as possible, as quickly as possible, so they can never attack again.
Failure to do that means the war is never over and will never be won.
History since WWII proves this out.

You’re a ******* moron.

Not saying they’re better off.

Just saying the USA ultimately lost the war.

The amount of denial in this thread is amazing.

By this standard, the USSR, uhh, didn’t lose A-stan, we just retreated….

In Vietnam the North never stopped challenging the US and ended up winning the war and region despite losing a number of battles

All battles.

The Tet offensive is considered a victory for the North in the manner that the Cong were so decisively defeated, the Cong never amounted to a serious threat again so the North did not have to worry about dealing with the Cong in the South after they took over, as they were mostly dead.