Chinese carrier operations

And I agree with your assessment. I meant no disrespect to you

Me neither to you, Roovialk.

I hope I didn’t give that impression.

Just that I suppose we can’t be sure what type of shoes they are.
They have done what seems to be a good job resurrecting, outfitting, and kitting up that rusty tub, but I also have no doubts there is a long road ahead, with mistakes and corrections.

I’m aware that the flight deck is a very hazardous place.

I didn’t call yours a dig, but if you look earlier in the thread, there are a couple of those.
I merely pointed out that you assumed that they weren’t wearing steel capped shoes, when my link shows that you get all kinds of steel capped shoes, many of them coincidentally made in China these days. You simply cannot assume they aren’t steel capped because they aren’t black in colour like they all were back in the day.
Thus, you actually have no real proof that it is a gaff or not, which is my entire point. It’s an assumption. They may or may not be soft shoes.

The news report you linked above sounds as if wearing steel capped boots wouldn’t have saved his leg.

Either way, it will be interesting to see how they get on over the next few years.
I suspect any indigineous carriers will only be laid down in the next few years, and benefit from their experience gained between now and then.

And I agree with your assessment. I meant no disrespect to you

Can you ‘dig’ this? What you read below is the reality of the flightdeck and there are no shortcuts for any person or nation who wishes to become proficient with carrier operations. Pointing out a PLAN gaff is not a dig. Even the most experienced navy suffers accidents. China is just starting out on a long climb. And re-furbishing an old carrier is the easiest part of the climb.

YOKOSUKA NAVAL BASE, Japan — A sailor lost his lower right leg after being pinned under the wheels of an F/A-18 Hornet on the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier on Wednesday.

The 19-year old sailor is a “blue shirt” airplane handler in the carrier’s V-1 division and was on the flight deck at 6:15 p.m. when the accident occurred. His name is being withheld for “privacy reasons,” said Kitty Hawk spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Terrence Dudley.

“The Hornet was basically being parked on the flight deck,” Dudley said. “The case is still under investigation but we know that the sailor managed to get his leg trapped under the wheels.”

I’m aware that the flight deck is a very hazardous place.

I didn’t call yours a dig, but if you look earlier in the thread, there are a couple of those.
I merely pointed out that you assumed that they weren’t wearing steel capped shoes, when my link shows that you get all kinds of steel capped shoes, many of them coincidentally made in China these days. You simply cannot assume they aren’t steel capped because they aren’t black in colour like they all were back in the day.
Thus, you actually have no real proof that it is a gaff or not, which is my entire point. It’s an assumption. They may or may not be soft shoes.

The news report you linked above sounds as if wearing steel capped boots wouldn’t have saved his leg.

Either way, it will be interesting to see how they get on over the next few years.
I suspect any indigineous carriers will only be laid down in the next few years, and benefit from their experience gained between now and then.

…I personally would give them the benefit of the doubt that they will get it right, sooner or later, and not join the cheap digs at them that seem to be a feature from some posters. (Not you, Jonesy).

Can you ‘dig’ this? What you read below is the reality of the flightdeck and there are no shortcuts for any person or nation who wishes to become proficient with carrier operations. Pointing out a PLAN gaff is not a dig. Even the most experienced navy suffers accidents. China is just starting out on a long climb. And re-furbishing an old carrier is the easiest part of the climb.

YOKOSUKA NAVAL BASE, Japan — A sailor lost his lower right leg after being pinned under the wheels of an F/A-18 Hornet on the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier on Wednesday.

The 19-year old sailor is a “blue shirt” airplane handler in the carrier’s V-1 division and was on the flight deck at 6:15 p.m. when the accident occurred. His name is being withheld for “privacy reasons,” said Kitty Hawk spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Terrence Dudley.

“The Hornet was basically being parked on the flight deck,” Dudley said. “The case is still under investigation but we know that the sailor managed to get his leg trapped under the wheels.”

To be honest Swerve I think Rooivalk has a point here….granted you can get steel toecapped soft shoes….but they are just that though – soft shoes. On a ship you are forever stepping over or through obstructions, jumping off platforms or fitting yourself around, usually heavy, machinery that is spinning, bouncing or is in some other fashion just waiting to send the unwary sailor base-over-apex. Ankle protection from a decent pair of boots, or even a modest pair of boots as per RN issue, is what you want to have and the Chinese chap with the trainers on is certainly not getting that…toecaps or not. Not the end of the world, but, slightly surprising.

I see your point about ankle length boots, but as Swerve said, we can’t say that they aren’t wearing steel capped shoes, which was Rooivialks point.

Personally, I think if they can turn an empty rusting hulk like this…

…into something like this…

…I personally would give them the benefit of the doubt that they will get it right, sooner or later, and not join the cheap digs at them that seem to be a feature from some posters. (Not you, Jonesy).

I think you missed him pointing out that their shoes can be safety shoes without looking like USN boots, & your assumption that they missed something is therefore just that, i.e. an assumption. You don’t know whether they’ve missed it.

To be honest Swerve I think Rooivalk has a point here….granted you can get steel toecapped soft shoes….but they are just that though – soft shoes. On a ship you are forever stepping over or through obstructions, jumping off platforms or fitting yourself around, usually heavy, machinery that is spinning, bouncing or is in some other fashion just waiting to send the unwary sailor base-over-apex. Ankle protection from a decent pair of boots, or even a modest pair of boots as per RN issue, is what you want to have and the Chinese chap with the trainers on is certainly not getting that…toecaps or not. Not the end of the world, but, slightly surprising.

I think you missed him pointing out that their shoes can be safety shoes without looking like USN boots, & your assumption that they missed something is therefore just that, i.e. an assumption. You don’t know whether they’ve missed it.

Of course the Chinese can wear any shoe they want on the flight deck. Its all good to me. It just seems odd that the PLAN who has copied so much of US Navy carrier procedures would miss these simple safety items.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]218641[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]218642[/ATTACH]

Yeah, because you simply don’t get steel toe capped trainers. They don’t exist.
What are the Chinese doing?
Don’t they know…… etc etc.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=trainers+with+steel+caps&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.ZWU&biw=1311&bih=597&wrapid=tlif137353457350310&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=d3neUa2_AuqR7Abc7ICACQ

Unless you’ve gone and felt what shoes the guy is wearing with your hands, this is not a good argument.

Speaking of procedures the PLAN is literally starting its carrier deck procedures on the wrong foot. During the recent cruise of the CV-16 (ex-Varyag), Chinese crewmen were seen on the flightdeck operating in soft footwear. Everyone knows that with the dangers on the flight deck the US Navy requires steel toe boots when working around aircraft and equipment. I guess this is another lesson the PLAN will have to learn the hard way [ATTACH=CONFIG]218578[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]218579[/ATTACH]

Ah, the retrospective justification!

Tell me, where was the previous reference to IP theft which you were referring to? The discussion was entirely about procedures which can not be patented or copyrighted.

I was not referring to open source information for the world to see. More to the point of stealing intellectual property my illegal means…………Which, China seems to have no problem with.

cough, cough…..steam catapult…..cough!.

Plus, to bring balance, where are Royal Navy personnel doing their deck training now…..where do Aeronavale pilots do a good chunk of their training?. In your view, to be consistent with your views on the Chinese, the USN should tell us both to nick off and pick it all up on our own again yeah?.

Perhaps they should learn on there own and not steal other peoples property………….just saying.

The US Navy figured out angled decks and OLSs all on their own did they?

What property? You can’t own stuff like that.

BTW, the entirety of human civilisation is built on first learning what others already know, & have done, & only then (maybe) adding something of your own. If we all had to start from scratch, each generation would be trying to work out flint-knapping anew.

Perhaps they should learn on there own and not steal other peoples property………….just saying.

US Navy LSO’s are chosen from experienced carrier pilots. With no experienced cadre to chose from I wonder how the PLAN is selecting theirs?

Perhaps they should hire Americans out of retirement.

Yeah quite fun, everything is Made in China in both pictures!:highly_amused: ( except the US carrier- although i’m not exactly sure …:p)

Don’t you mean made in the USSR, for the top photo 😉

Just for fun, this is a recent image of Chinese LSO working on the Liaoning compared to a USN LSO:

Yeah quite fun, everything is Made in China in both pictures!:highly_amused: ( except the US carrier- although i’m not exactly sure …:p)

US Navy LSO’s are chosen from experienced carrier pilots. With no experienced cadre to chose from I wonder how the PLAN is selecting theirs? Next notice that the Chinese sailor holding the pickle is wearing a Titleist golf cap. What’s up with that? Finally why have the Chinese abandoned the glass enclosed area that they were first using as an LSO station like the Russians use? Its the details that count.