Chipmunk starter question

What are the sources for the start cartridges? I could use a few for a warbird that needs starting.

Thanks!

i wouldn’t say the starter cartridges on a canberra were particularly hard to change, they were a daily use item, so were designed to be changed easily.
hunters also used the same cartridges as the canberra.

I take it you have never changed one on a Hunter. The top one was abit of a stretch.

this box full was used in approx summer 1985 at Valley on the Chippy in for the air cadets summer camp. We used to look after the aircraft whilst working on TAHS.

Yes we used to have TWA (teeny weeny airways) at cottesmore for summer camp chippies.

And here’s the box the Chipmunk starter carts used to come in…….

Even though the batch is late 60’s, this box full was used in approx summer 1985 at Valley on the Chippy in for the air cadets summer camp. We used to look after the aircraft whilst working on TAHS.

Memories of being in the back of 5AEF’s Chippies at Cambridge in the 80s – BANG! – Blatter-Blat, Blatter-Blat!

More of a bang followed by a hiss, I seem to remember, watching the likes of Ced Hughes, John Blackmore, Stan Hayward et al taking their talking ballast for a trip………

Memories of being in the back of 5AEF’s Chippies at Cambridge in the 80s – BANG! – Blatter-Blat, Blatter-Blat!

I last did a chippy start in 1983 but (sadly:D) still remember our litany ”Engine primed,Breech Loaded,Cowlings Secure and Rear Switches are ‘On’ — slides canopy forward.
It was great working on the AEF…lots of chippy flying with some great characters,some VRT guys were WW2 pilots .

In the Chipmunk, I recall that we had to wait a certain time before firing a second cartridge if the first one did not work, which was not rare. Sometimes we had to reload the cartridge magazine, but I think we had to call for professional help for that!

Laurence

On the single breech Canberras (B2/T4 types) if we had a failed start,we had to wait 2 mins (from memory) to let any residual voltage dissipate before changing or cleaning the cart.
Sometimes when a red faced Station Master forgot to open the HP C0CK 😀

Talking about reloading, would there be an indicator in the cockpit stating how many cartridges were remaining so if there was a pilot change, they would know how soon to reload?:confused:

Nah !!it was more like Capt Towns in Flight of the Phoenix 😀 .
On 6AEF we reloaded the revolver on the Turn Round servicing,and since they almost invariably started on the first ‘BANG’ it was never a problem.
On the AEF’s our pilots used to do long stints anyway and the engine was not normally shut down unless absolutely necessary,so we usually only changed between 1 and 3 carts.

No there was no cockpit indicator as to how many were left. I think we unclipped the magazine during the preflight so we knew what was there. I seem to recall it hinged downward. As bazv said, we might well need some groundcrew to help!

Laurence

From memory it was not a problem just using the next cart as long as the previous one had fired so if the engine turned but did not fire,it was not a problem.
But if you operated the starter and the cart did not fire then one had to be a little careful.At that stage I would have called in a ‘sumpy’ and let him sort it 😀
Sometimes in cold weather (say) after xmas holiday it sometimes took 2 or 3 carts to get a chippy running,the oil (OMD 370) was like treacle in cold weather.

Talking about reloading, would there be an indicator in the cockpit stating how many cartridges were remaining so if there was a pilot change, they would know how soon to reload?:confused:

In the Chipmunk, I recall that we had to wait a certain time before firing a second cartridge if the first one did not work, which was not rare. Sometimes we had to reload the cartridge magazine, but I think we had to call for professional help for that!

Laurence

The Chippie Koffman starter was a ring pull affair in the cockpit, on the top right side of the panel. If you pulled hard enough the wire would come out still attached to the ring 😉

The Alvis Leonides in the Whirlwind also used a cartridge start, but I vaguely recall that we only had 3 cartridges. Unless that was the number in the Avpin system on the Wessex HAS1? Now that was a starter system: monofuel powerful enough to send the complete starter out of the helicopter, through the closed doors of the hangar, and only stop when it hit the other set of doors at t’other end of the hangar 😮

Auster also used a Coffman starter on the AOP 9 as did Saunders Roe on the Skeeter. In both cases they were actually over charged 12 gauge blanks much like those used to start the old single cylinder Field Marshall tractors.
As a matter of interest, wer the cartridges used on Canberraas and Hunters the same as those used on the Javelin? I recall those being big black things of a plastic/rubber like substance which partially melted away when fired.

No clutch , it just spins the motor over , ignition on and the motor runs !!

Sometimes-if you are lucky:D

Couple of photos that may help those who may have not seen one ? Keith.

The Chippie Koffman starter was a ring pull affair in the cockpit, on the top right side of the panel. If you pulled hard enough the wire would come out still attached to the ring 😉

The Alvis Leonides in the Whirlwind also used a cartridge start, but I vaguely recall that we only had 3 cartridges. Unless that was the number in the Avpin system on the Wessex HAS1? Now that was a starter system: monofuel powerful enough to send the complete starter out of the helicopter, through the closed doors of the hangar, and only stop when it hit the other set of doors at t’other end of the hangar 😮

Coffman Starter cartridges

The standard cartridge was/is about the same size as a 10 gage Shotgun shell with a cordite charge within. These cost about $75 EACH according to my sources so your engine better be prone to start easily!

Cartridge Starters

Slightly off topic, but the Auxiliary Power Unit (APU); a Rover gas turbine in the right wing; of the Vulcan Mk2 had a cartridge start facility. The normal start method was electrical directly off the aircraft batteries, but for those occaisons in the air when you really needed it in a hurry the cartridge start was provided. The APU ran at a speed of about 23000 (yes – twentythree thousand) rpm. Using the cartridge; the very same as used on the Canberra and Hunter for the Avon engine; it reached operating speed inside 2 seconds. This facility could lead to a bit of excitement on QRA if there was no external power on the aircraft. When the the AEO switched on the baterries he had to then pause for 5 seconds (about that, it was a long time ago) before starting the APU as a cartridge start was automatically selected for that time before the electric start circuit became active. If he was a bit too quick the cartridge fired, which certainly got everybody’s attention!

The other aspect of this is that it does show what a tough little machine the Rover APU was.

exmpa

The Coffman starter was a device fitted to the rear end of a Chipmunk engine,and consisted of a large chunky magazine holding six shotgun cartridges(Less Pellets). On being operated,gas would fly down a tube,and enter a casing, which surrounded a “large lead” piston,this, on being forced forward,would cause a rotary motion of the crank shaft,usually sufficent to “fire” the engine.The Canberra starter cartridge was hefty affair,I was once shown one,by our Squadron “Cheifie”,and asked “Whatsis”? It looks like a 40m/m Bofors A/A shell casing,Flight Seargent,I replied.No, Lad,he said,and these things are a right “Horses Derriere” to change,so don,t you go setting one off,or I will be very displeased!!

i wouldn’t say the starter cartridges on a canberra were particularly hard to change, they were a daily use item, so were designed to be changed easily.
hunters also used the same cartridges as the canberra.

but if you want to see a big started cart. , the one for a F-111 is about the same size as a 5 litre can of paint, and smokes like a pig when set off!