Civilian light plane becoming a real nuisance

Thanks to those that replied to my post, i do realize a lot of what was said was more of a general discussion on aviation related problems, i was just concerned anyone finding this thread by searching with a legitimate complaint or enquiry about aviation may have been pushed back into more of an anti-aviation stance by some of the replies. I had hoped the original poster would have added more to the discussion after my post, but unfortunately not! Still i appreciate replies

My comments weren’t specifically aimed at the original poster they were just intended to add to the general discussion.
If the original poster had told us all where he lives it may well be that some of the pilots who are forum members could have offered an explanation for the low flying in his area. He also didn’t specify what he meant by low flying. My idea of low flying is below 100ft because I equate low flying with air displays. In terms of a light aircraft on a routine cross country flight I would imagine the definition of low flying would probably equate to below 1000 feet or so (again I could be wrong).
If these aircraft are flying low then presumerably the poster can read their registration letters and then write to his nearest airfield who will firstly be able to confirm that they operate from that airfield and secondly they may be able to offer an explanation for the flight levels used in his area.
I am sure no pilot purposely flies low with the deliberate aim of causing a nuisance to those on the ground. If the original poster feels he has a genuine complaint then he now has a starting point to try to resolve the problem or at least try to understand the problem.
Incidentally I used to ride off road motorcycles. I hear plenty of them around where I live now. The noise doesn’t bother me unduly but the fact that they are being ridden illegally in places where they damage the sea wall and a local site of special scienctific interest does concern me. I am also concerned that their actions damage the hobby of people like myself who have ridden legitimately in organised competitions and now find that thanks to the actions of people who ride in prohibited areas we are unable to secure land to hold legitimate competitions. In these circumsytances I am happy to do anything I can to see those who ride on the wrong places prosecuted.

“What i am trying to say, is rather than calling the guy a NIMBY or whatever, you could get in some positive discussion, ask what aircraft type, colours etc, use your knowledge to help him realise what the aircraft are doing, and when its figured out, maybe you could help him work out a course of action, maybe these aircraft need to fly over him all the time, or maybe the operator is contactable and can notify him of why they are flying on that course and might even be able to make some changes, i am sure some of you people who are pilots wouldn’t want to know you are causing annoyance and would do your best to rectify this if it was possible.” (quote)

It takes two to communicate and as the O.P. isn’t, it is left to everyone to have and voice their own opinion without the benefit of knowing all the facts.

I have to admit, having just seen this thread, i’m pretty dissapointed at some off the replies, i am not familiar with the original poster, and he probably hasn’t helped his question by not giving an idea of where he lives to help posters understand what the aircraft may be doing at low level, but the sarcastic replies may of made him think, ‘why bother?’

Let me just say that i have a lot of respect for many people that have replied, and as i am just someone with a casual interest in general aviation i often read your posts with great interest, and my comments are not meant to make me an enemy!

The thread starter has posted many times on these forums, showing he has an interest in aviation and isn’t just here to complain, his intial complaint about low flying aircraft is a valid one, i love aircraft, and enjoy watching all types, but would grow tired of low passes over my house all day, unless this was by something of real interest, although not stating his exact location, he has said he lives 20 miles from his nearest airfield, so its not like he’s right at the edge of a runway. I feel his original question was asking for advice on what he could do personally to improve his situation. He’s not starting a campaign, or petition regarding airfeild development, he’s not a green lobbiest, its just assumed he is because he has showed annoyance at aircraft noise.

Maybe you all have reason to comment with your backs against the wall, aviation does get a lot of flak, i live in an area where week after week the local papers headlines are about the local airport wanting to allow an extra hour and a half of flights a day. The campaigners go on about deserving peace and quiet and the airport operators and supporters champion new jobs and putting the area on the map, well to me there both valid points, i try not to just take one side. Maybe if the airport operators bothered to communicate more, there could be more support, explain why, when there are so few flights now you need to increase flight windows? Rather than saying 5 million passengers using the airport in 16 years time!

What i am trying to say, is rather than calling the guy a NIMBY or whatever, you could get in some positive discussion, ask what aircraft type, colours etc, use your knowledge to help him realise what the aircraft are doing, and when its figured out, maybe you could help him work out a course of action, maybe these aircraft need to fly over him all the time, or maybe the operator is contactable and can notify him of why they are flying on that course and might even be able to make some changes, i am sure some of you people who are pilots wouldn’t want to know you are causing annoyance and would do your best to rectify this if it was possible.

Like i said, i really have little clue on this subject, and don’t want a bad rep amongst other users, i am really interested in what you say, but there seems to be way to much of an us and them mentality going on here, and i think that only serves to damage the thing we are passionate about most. Aviation

Planners – wash your mouth out lad.

And the Isle of Wight is not without its share of anti-aviation planners and buyers. Sandown is a typical example; the airport has been there since 1928, that is 81 years by my reckoning. My we have some old planners and buyers around here! :rolleyes:

Anyhow aircraft are more user friendly than pigeons – they don’t fly around pooing on everything.

We currently have a similar problem at Southend.
In the 1960’s the council wanted to develop the airport to take jets. Channel Airways had acquired BAC 111 and Tridents and other operators were supposedly interested so a plan was drawn up to extend 33/15 into the fields beyond the airport boundary. The approach and take off were over the least populated parts of the surrounding area so it was the best that could be done if the airport was to grow. Then the NIMBYs surfaced and the whole project was shelved, Channel Airways went bust partly through the increased cost of trying to operate from two bases and the town lost a load of jobs.
Over the years parts of the airport were sold off and the end of 33/15 was developed into a retail park so the airfield only has 06/24 now with a church on the threshold at one end together with a road directly outside the airport fence and a railway line crossing the other end of the runway on the airfield boundary.
40 odd years later the current management want to develop the airport. It is proving very difficult to overcome the problems of obstructions on the boundaries and the NIMBYs have surfaced again.
Truth is if the original NIMBYs had kept their gobs shut our airport would have prospered for the past 40 odd years instead of slowly declining and we would have had far more jobs in the area. This would have meant more workers who need houses near the airport which would probably have meant an increase in property prices so the NIMBYs could have sold their houses at a profit to the new workers and gone to live on a desert island away from all the aircraft noise.
The current NIMBY view is that the airport wasn’t busy when they bought their houses so why should they allow it to get busier and supposedly devalue their properties now. They are also opposed to an industrial estate or housing on the airport land as the increase in traffic may devalue their homes so presumerably they expect to leave a huge area of land derelict once they have managed to close the airport – no that can’t be a viable alternative either as the derelict land would be an eyesore and that might devalue their homes!

In a perfect world Mike, I would not listen to them.However as the post from Oz illustrates, common sense is not common and people do push the complaints hard. So best to communicate early with these people(if they will talk)
I noticed the page for Eshott recently, they have a diagram of avoid overflight locations which is complex, until you take the attitude of not flying over any buildings inthe circuit pattern !

And the original post is a wind up.

R22 what’s that? the runway in use? Oh the thing that whirls its wings around over its head, a totally unnatural form of flight and ugly to boot as well as being (I think) just about the noisiest helicopter (pardon me for swearing) in its class.
These people amaze me, Kidlington has its fair share of that type of person. They know there is an active airfield on the doorstep but still go ahead and move into the area anyway. In my world that means they deserve what they get and don’t even warrant listening to.

You can hardly use R22 and aircraft in the same paragraph

Its a wind up it has to be.

Who would be daft enough to post on an aviation forum an “I hate puddle jumpers” type post.

Well I do actually I hates them and R22’s wana swat the bloody little things.

there are only two types of aircraft

1). Those of slender design with NO Engine whatsoever. Awsome

and

2). Those with two preferably powerful jet engines equipped for combat.
even more awsome

But we all have to start somewhere and I guess this poor sod lives under a GA training area. If it is a genuine case.

C’mon Pigeon fancier or whatever you are fess up.

jb154 a Lightning nut.

PS anybody got a Lightning auto trim indicator really need one for the UK side Instrument Test rig for XS422 out in good old USA

Plan is we are servicing all lelcy. / Inst. kit here in UK; so need to make a complete mock-up of the installation. So have a huge list of bits required.
They don’t have to be flight worthy but recoverable to a state where they will pass the SST in the relevant A.P. which we have C/O thunder city. we have a shipping arrangement with a sponsor in US so should work out OK.

any offers???? She is getting very close

A new air defence wood pigeon has been spotted scrambling from PAF Oak Tree , apparently he is the First of The Few and was last seen at Angels One Five !:)

Yes its a bit strange on how people complain about certain things, this despite the fact these things were there long before they moved in next door!

Here in sunny Townsville we have a joint user RAAF/ Civvy airport.
The RAAF have been at the same site since before WW2.

Approximately 1km from the runway threshold is a small hill (just 100 or so meters left of centreline).
Now the hill is only 200ft tall and up until 15yrs ago was not “populated”.
The council in their wisdom allowed housing to be built on this hill.. lord knows why…

Now strangely enough, these people who buy these houses, are the first to whinge and constanly moan on TV, radio and in the newspapers that the “RAAF” CONSTANTLY TRAINS OVER THEIR HOUSES!!!

Seriously, is todays society so completely stupid?

I can recall back in 1990 sometime while i flew for the local parachute club in their C207 that the chief instructor got a call from the CAA saying they received a “noise” complaint about “our” aircraft.

The complaint was from a resident on top of yet another small hill, this one being close to the coast line and adorned with $1million dollar houses.

On take-off i would turn right as soon as i could as i didnt want to fly over the ocean in the event of engine failure as we didnt carry life jackets, so i always flew past that hill.

I simply told the parachute instructor “If that resident has an issue he can talk to me in person”. The CAA could not do anything to “compel” me to stay away from that hill, nor could ATC.

Recently however I was shocked to hear that a noise complaint was taken to court when 5 (yes 5) residents of our local island made consistant complaints agaisnt ONE particular float plane which did joy flights in the area.

The court case almost sent them into broke and somehow the court ruled the float plane was to have a smaller diameter prop installed in order to reduce engine noise on take-off????!!!

How on earth CAN A COURT RULE on a DESIGN CHANGE to an aircraft which degrades its climb performance??????

The husband and wife team had run out of money to fight the court ruling and were forced to buy another prop in order to continue their business…..

Later their plane had items stolen from it while it was tied to moorings….
Im disgusted that these sorts of people exsist around here.

Newsflash

DAILY BIRD’S EYE (23 July 2009)

“Department of Environment officials have today confirmed that light aircraft are currently being used to cull racing pigeons and other pestilent and verminous birds.

Aircraft are being used to circle known habitats as low as 500ft in some areas and make an incessant drone that is a known irritant to pigeons. Approximately sixteen orbits are made on a daily basis of known pigeon lairs and when the birds are sufficiently irritated and fly around in confusion the sky is, literally, seeded. A scatter of bird seed is dropped over the circling pigeons who then land to pick up and eat the fallen seed which has been either poisoned or narcotised.

Results are currently being analysed, although initial indications are showing that the pigeon racer owners are far from happy and distinctly irritated. This is no doubt down to the loss of their pigeons, but may also be caused by the shower of guano deposited by the circling birds on their hapless owners.

The filghts are due to continue and are likely to increase in order to maximise results against pigeons and owners.”

Filed by special reporter Jack Daw.

PS – Note to Pigeonracer:

It might just be me, but complaining about aeroplanes on a forum that is, well, kind of for aviation enthusiasts seems a tad…..erm….bizarre. You seem to be on the wrong website old chap. Try here instead:

http://www.pigeon.org/

or here:

http://www.nimbyexperts.com/

Just trying to helpful during an idle momemt!

Ah, remember it well!:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_of_Leigh_v._Skyviews_&_General_Ltd

Actualy, you CAN’T break noise abatement procedures. Because they are not LAW. Only voluntary.
If you live in a village or anything larger, then 1000 feet (or glide clear rule) aplies. If you’re in the sticks, then it’s 500 feet. And no, you DON’T own the airspace above your house either.

Bottom line: You can do NOTHING (except move).

I think the leading case about airpsace above your house is Bernstein vs Skyviews

Unless the aircraft are breaking noise abatement procedures there’s not a lot of action that can be taken…

Actualy, you CAN’T break noise abatement procedures. Because they are not LAW. Only voluntary.
If you live in a village or anything larger, then 1000 feet (or glide clear rule) aplies. If you’re in the sticks, then it’s 500 feet. And no, you DON’T own the airspace above your house either.

Bottom line: You can do NOTHING (except move).

Nah, at least Kylie turns up for the shows she’s booked to play…

Excuse me?

I’m actually Scottish via Hampshire and as for Birmingham my old headmaster used to say when walking through classes as he did ‘just passing through, boys, just passing through”.

LOL

Could have said the same for me word for word but shouldn’t Amy be your Queen?:D

Brummies!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

kev35 (From one of the darker fringes of the Black Country.)

Excuse me?

I’m actually Scottish via Hampshire and as for Birmingham my old headmaster used to say when walking through classes as he did ‘just passing through, boys, just passing through”.

LOL

What sort of people are we attracting these days? :confused:

Brummies!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

kev35 (From one of the darker fringes of the Black Country.)