Cockpit-Fest USA

I’m sorry if you’re offended that wasn’t the intention – but I stand by my point about the HLF project being the main cause in 2003. Not covered previously in any public domain were discussions by the trustees about the possibility of having to cancel that year due to potential construction work – however delays in sorting out the tendering process meant that didn’t happen.

It is still my personal opinion that there is a lack of understanding of what goes on to make it happen and the difficult job of trying to reach ‘behind the scene’ compromises that aim to keep everyone happy. Cockpiteers that I have spoken to will understand what I mean!

Obviously you still have concerns that indicate that this wasn’t achieved in your circumstances – again I can only apologise; but I fear that we won’t reconcile our different views on this topic, which isn’t really for a Cockpit-Fest USA thread!

Sadly you seem to not appreciate the co-ordination effort that goes in behind the scenes, to keep in touch with people

I think if anyone doesn’t appreciate the “effort” that goes into such an event, it is yourself.

For quite sometime the only contact we received was a phone call from Bill, asking if we were coming; he wasn’t then connected to the internet, and it was only in the later years that we would receive emails from the museum directly.

Those of us that were members of the ill fated cockpit club, made a huge effort for this event, A, by turning up with an exhibit, and B, by ringing round fellow cockpiteers, and encouraging them to attend.

I find it offensive that you suggest that I do not appreciate the co-ordinational effort for this event, when I myself (together with a few others) ARE the behind the scenes movers and shakers.

I stand by my remarks that in 2003 there were 6 visiting cockpits, one of which was mine, my diary entry for saturday the 14 june 2003 says, overcast, slightly dissapointing, there wasn’t as many as last year”.

Every page for the previous month has an entry regarding the progress of the cockpit; perhaps you are unaware of the huge effort some of us have to put in, in order to attend.

I might also add that in all the years I attended, I never met you (or indeed any other museum representative), my only contact was Bill and a few of the volunteers.

Finally we did a bit of research post event 2003, and let bill and Ken Ellis know what the conclusion was, for posterity; many people didn’t like the idea of it being a competition, and felt that their own cockpit would be viewed as sub standard.

Also they felt the prize money would be better distributed as travelling expenses, and quite a few couldn’t make the event always on fathers day; Ken Ellis said that they couldn’t change the way that the “prize money was apportioned, and so the recomendations of the cockpit club were ignored.

Sadly you seem to not appreciate the co-ordination effort that goes in behind the scenes, to keep in touch with people; send out invites; keep other supporters on board etc. etc. – if only it were a case of announce the date and everyone turn up, have a great time and come back the following year!

Keep the faith Justin and your event will go from strength to strength; organisations seldom get everything right all of the time – but as you’ll sense from the positive feedback most of the cockpiteers feel that it’s something worthwhile supporting! 🙂

Agreed. Ive had to explain to some people who are not cockpiteers just how much affort, time, and money it takes to get a cockpit to C-F. Its a huge undertaking! Even more so when trying to make a cockpit that is not a finished restoration into a presentable cockpit. We had two cockpits being painted and touched up at the museum the morning the event started.

One of our cockpits did not arrive because the exhibitor’s son broke his jaw in football practice the day before he was to bring the cockpit. Talk about a let down after all that prep work to bring it. Life happens.

On the staff side the same was true. The weeks before C-F I had no other life when not at my day job. Even though I live locally I had to take a few days off from work to handle Cockpit-Fest. The amount of details and coordination involved was intense but it was a lot of fun. Preparing and configuring the museum facilities also took a lot of effort. However, after the cockpits were gone my visiting nephew was thrilled to help me move the museum planes back into place with the tug!

Justin

How does the lack of participants relate to a lack of museum volunteer resources? surely the decision to attend or not is taken by the individual based on factors that relate to them, i.e, weather, (previous year, as well as the current one) clash of events, (Kemble for one) family commitments, (fathers day) the individuals financial position, (travelling costs trailer hire) etc.

Sadly you seem to not appreciate the co-ordination effort that goes in behind the scenes, to keep in touch with people; send out invites; keep other supporters on board etc. etc. – if only it were a case of announce the date and everyone turn up, have a great time and come back the following year!

Keep the faith Justin and your event will go from strength to strength; organisations seldom get everything right all of the time – but as you’ll sense from the positive feedback most of the cockpiteers feel that it’s something worthwhile supporting! 🙂

Hi all

The next year we stayed over, and that was when we realised what Cockpitfest was realy all about. The friendship, help and all round comeradery of all at Newark and the fellow Cockpiteer’s was unbelivable. And that is the esscence of Cockpitfest.

For many years Ive heard Chris Woodul say the same and thats exactly how it turned out in the US. The enthusiasm was amazing.

I can only imagine how many lifelong friendships have formed at CF UK.

Cheer!
Justin

Please don’t turn this thread downwards. I know as British people we can be self deprecating but everything at cockpitFest is great. I have done every cockpitfest. Yes it costs me to attend, but I reap the benefits back 100 fold.

Our American Cousins have done a great job and are really behind this. Last week I spoke to at least 1 possible new supporter with US based cockpits who are is thinking of attending.

How does the lack of participants relate to a lack of museum volunteer resources? surely the decision to attend or not is taken by the individual based on factors that relate to them, i.e, weather, (previous year, as well as the current one) clash of events, (Kemble for one) family commitments, (fathers day) the individuals financial position, (travelling costs trailer hire) etc.

In defence of Newark.

Hi all

The last few posts are troubling me personaly. Howard is quite correctly telling it the way it is from the inside, and others will have there view’s from other perspectives.

So here is how it is from a Cockpiteer’s view point. Max and I are a father / son team (now!), but that’s not how it started. Max was about 13 years old, and had a motley collection of instrument panels, this had grown from a seed planted by Nev Martin at Bruntingthore, someone many of us owe a lot to.

Max was a shy kid who had read about Cockpitfest in Flypast, he badgered me to take him along, which I did. and he won an award, which stands out as one of the proudest days of his parents lives. I will never forget Ken Ellis interviewing him, and he talks about it to this day.

The next year we stayed over, and that was when we realised what Cockpitfest was realy all about. The friendship, help and all round comeradery of all at Newark and the fellow Cockpiteer’s was unbelivable. And that is the esscence of Cockpitfest.

However, real life goes on around us, and inevitably that influences participation. The logistics of getting a display, be it a cockpit or an instrument panel should not be underestimated. Most of us spend all year driving around in a small family car, which sudenly has to become a lorry!

The costs also take there toll, nothing is free in this world, and it is not the cheapest hobby in the world (mind you we tell the Mr’s that it is!!). So sometimes people have to miss events, or scale things down.

However, you will almost inveriably see the guy’s who are missing out walking around as general public over the weekend, probably having sheared costs to come over in one car, and all will be sorry they are not participating.

My message is this, Cockpitfest has the most loyal and brilliant group of both organisers and followers of any event in any disciplin I have ever known, and the numbers in atendance don’t nessesarily reflect the success of the event, but probably more the situation of the individuals attending.

But no matter what, Howard, Bill and everyone else who helps make it such a special event, deserve nothing but praise and our thanks.

Max id older, bigger and uglier, and I am fatter, greyer and older, but we love the event no matter what.

And I am willing to sign this off with my name!

Ritch and Max Blood, proud to be Cockpiteer’s.

The cockpits in Wrecks & Relics only include those allocated a number for judging – not all museum cockpits have been judged, only those on loan and entered by their owners; it does include a few rigs but not instrument panels etc.; the data tends to be related to cockpits with an airframe serial number. Hence why the Shackleton T4 was not entered and the numbers I listed varied slightly from David’s – as mentioned in his post!

Whether you accept it or not, as I’ve stated several times before I’m certain that 2003 was HLF project related – volunteer resources were thin and something had to give!

I presume that the figures for cockpits at the event include those that remain there permanently; I think you’ll find that the upsurge in 2004, was in the main due to much behind the scenes work, helping and encouraging those who in 2003 hadn’t quite made the event. (for what ever reason)

I first attended in 2002 and did every year until 2009; my memory is obviously hazy but often figures don’t tell the full story, eg radically cut down cockpits, (like Davids Bucc, at least one Lightning and a Hunter) are little more than rigs and should recorded as such.

Either way you look at it 2003 was a huge dip, in what should have been a rapidly expanding event.

Prompted by David’s comments and having previously supplied newsletter information to Justin off-board on this subject I have done a little ‘research’ using the oracle! 😀

Number of cockpits at Cockpit-Fest by year:

2000 – 10
2001 – 15
2002 – 22
2003 – 9*
2004 – 19
2005 – 20
2006 – 19
2007 – 23
2008 – 21
2009 – 26
2010 – 18
2011 – 20
2012 – 32**

*HLF funding secured in March 2003 for Hangar 2 project; building work eventually started in November 2003 after significant contract implementation programme.

**My cockpit count data that includes items that only exhibited on one of the days.

Sorry for the HLF lapse, which recovered slightly quicker than I recalled. I won’t let it happen again, well until NAM gets its next HLF grant!! 😉

Please also remember the huge increase in additional supporting displays that has been attained. 🙂

Knifeedge -crunching the numbers I put the first Cockpitfest at eleven including the Shackleton T.4 cockpit that naturally stationed itself next to the MR.3/3 !
I then put your nominal three years at 2003 at nine -hardly a halving of numbers ! Moving onwards – I look at 2004 and see a total of nineteen cockpits attending! The year after twenty cockpits attending so maybe your figures don’t
stack up in the way that your perceive them to !
In all the years I have attended I think I have missed one (2011) -each one has seen different personalities come and go -and cockpits either retire to museums , be exported or continue to attend . Either way everyone seems to enjoy it or I guess they wouldn’t come back !

I’m sorry but we’ll have to disagree!

When I compare the effort that I put in around the edge of the event now, to what I was able to do from 2003 through to 2006/7, back then it was miniscule by comparison. At that time I was part of the project team for the HLF project – I still am, completing the regular ‘monitoring reports’ that were part of the original HLF contract.

The point above is made not to try to be clever, blow my own trumpet, or diminish the huge ‘in-detail’ effort put into Cockpit-Fest by the other organisers at NAM – who make a fantastic effort with minimal resources. It is meant to illustrate the original observation that I made in post #81; that includes the e.g. of negotiating prizes from the USA for the 2013 event in Newark.

Also if you observe the date of my joining this forum you will also note a correlation to the dates mentioned above!

As for how to attract more cockpits, you tell me I’ve long since given up trying to understand the rationale behind why all sorts of people, participate (or don’t) at events!

Maybe it’s something to do with the number of locations / organisations trying to replicate the event, as I said above I don’t know. However what I do know – it’s a nice feeling and a privilege to have been involved with such an innovative event as Cockpit-Fest for such a long time – including the highs and occasional ‘not so highs!’ 🙂

I don’t believe the problem was anything to do with museum volunteers.

It is a long time since I looked at the cockpit club membership list (and the cockpits associated with them), but (if memory serves me) there were over 60 in the UK, in 2003 there was something in the order of 6 visiting cockpits at the event.

Undoubtedly there are more cockpits than ever, but I reckon if you get 25% you are lucky.

If this event takes off like the one in the UK, then after three years, it will be down to about half the numbers that it had when it started, and it will take a further seven years to get back to it’s original size….

Perhaps – especially if the Kansas Aviation Museum has a major Hangar building project to successfully implement, which means that the museum has to focus its limited volunteer resources into that project rather than ‘event organisation’. 😉

By the way I like the logo Justin!

Plus the prizes for 2013 arrived safely – many thanks; sorry for the delayed acknowledgement, ‘time pressure’ is one of the perils of a heavily involved volunteer!! 🙂

If this event takes off like the one in the UK, then after three years, it will be down to about half the numbers that it had when it started, and it will take a further seven years to get back to it’s original size….

There are enough cockpits within a days drive that I dont think that will be a problem. The trick will be to get the cockpits to attend that are further away. There are a lot of cockpits on the East and West Coast but that is a long, expensive drive. For 2012 some of those people flew in and visited, but left their cockpits home.

Justin

If this event takes off like the one in the UK, then after three years, it will be down to about half the numbers that it had when it started, and it will take a further seven years to get back to it’s original size….

Spitfire

So, the Spitfire would go, with sponsorship. Would you be staying at home then, Tony?:D

Nice to see a Phantom on the Cockpit-Fest USA logo!

Seems about the same size an event there as it was here in the early days. I bet, if this takes off in the US like it has over here then there’ll be a field full of participants in about ten year’s time:eek: – knowing how they like to do things in the US.

Anon.

Impressive stuff…..now all I need is sponsorship and the spitfire could be there!

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