Cockpit Ownership Your Questions Answered

Looks a cracker David. I’ve gone through the other thread as suggested by Dave T and i’m more wise as to the true costs and issues as a cockpit owner. I think as has been suggested to me already that starting with a instrument panel is the way forward and take on a full cockpit later on once I’ve got the experience.

Unless there is as bargin that cant be missed comes up 😉

Canberra PR.7

Cliff – here is a Canberra that’s available!

Once you start on your panel(s), you should add them to the instrument panel thread.

Here is the link to the thread Cliff……. 😉

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36703&highlight=instrument+panels

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Cliff.
Once you start on your panel(s), you should add them to the instrument panel thread.

Cheers Peter, Thanks for the link.

regards

Cliff

www.spitfirespares.com has some available. Once you get the drawings for them though any good cad machine company can make some for you.

So the next daft question is where apart from Ebay are a good source of Blind flying panels…. fancy stating with either a Canberra or Shar only coz parts seem easy to aquire.

Cliff

For what it’s worth… I’ve spent about 3.5 years collecting parts and repairing my sea hawk cockpit. I don’t get to spend very much time on this so it could have been done a lot quicker. The end is in sight for me now, I expect to apply the final paint in the next few weeks.

Space in which to work is a major consideration. The sea hawk was a great choice because with the short nose it will fit in a regular garage – although you can only work on one side at a time! The further your cockpit is from home, the less you’ll work on it and suitable storage space can be very very hard to find.

Skills – you will develop them all. Patience is a major requirement, restoration can take a while but it does become an obsession.

Collecting parts is an ongoing task. I check the ICC and Ebay as often as I can – you never know when that elusive part will apear. The cost of accumulating all these parts can be high too and you will not get your money back should you ever decide to sell up. (50 quid for a G-Meter!!)

One cost I hadn’t thought about was the cost of a suitable trailer. I was lucky and only paid 480 quid for a small double-axled car transporter and luckily I can weld so am able to modify this to suit.

I can give you a long list of reasons to avoid cockpit ownership but the joy of taking a lump of crud and turning it into a shiny example of aviation magic discounts them all by a long way.

All I need now is to find her a home. No point having a cockpit in your garage, the whole idea is to make it available to all. Any offers??

Roy.

A cockpit section can be quite a daunting prospect Cliff never mind an airframe – looking after a complete aircraft outside can be a forth bridge type task….

certainly a good idea to start with an instrument panel try and find an original one from a ‘common’ aircraft – there are many repro panels about, which are not necessarily a bad thing as long as you know they are repro – you can then hunt for the pilots notes and the various instruments you need to complete the panel.

That gets you used to ‘the game’ and helps you make useful contacts etc – in addition the panel is easy to store and (tolerant wife permitting) be displayed in your gaff…

you then need to draw up a wish list of cockpit sections. Generally the more modern they are the heavier they are – but can, as a result, be more resilient…ie you could try a Tiger cockpit – Dave T had one for sale a while back, which are light and fun, but quite difficult to find, or move on to a chippie/PAX section which for the beginner might be just right and can be found relatively easily – in fact i think Bruce had one for sale a while ago. On the other end of the scale you could move to Hunters, Lightnings or Vampires! Phil used to have a Phantom, all 25ft of it!

You also need to factor in storage – for example if you want to work on the cockpit in a garage, JPs and Chippies might be best as they usually have sliding canopies – if you go for a vamp you’ll need a good 4 ft above the pod to open her up, unless you remove the canopy whilst you’re working on her.

Alternatively perhaps talk to a local museum who might have the space and be glad of an exhibit on a you scratch my back…basis.

Of course we are talking military birds here – from time to time the odd cessna etc turns up on ebay.

Finally bear in mind that a complete cockpit, financially, does not add up to the sum of all its parts – ie you could buy a JP shell for £500 but then spend a few grand on a panel, instruments, control columns, pedals and bang seats. but it would still only be worth, say, £1500.

I imagine you’ll want to find the most complete example you can, but not one which has been completed (otherwise, whats the point – its an acquisition not a restoration) for the money you can afford, unless you start with a ‘cheap’ cockpit ie a chippie for £3-500 with a canopy and screen would be ok as the seats are integral and you’ll only be hunting for internal fittings….

Just me pennorth..

TT

Thanks for showing me the way Master obe one Dave T!

actually that thread had some really good information in it. I’ve looked at the two vendors sites you mentioned and knowing what others paid for their complete SHars I guess one vendor is in for making a tidy sum for just the cockpit sections with the rest going for spare’s recovery or just plane scrap.

I was temped to put in a sealed bid for a SHar on the DSE site but did not think they sold to the general public.

Well thanks again.. guess Ive just got to get a few bits in place before taking the plunge. enough capital ect. I cant help thinking that your advice of a SHar or Jag as a first project might be the way to go if only coz of the availablity of spares etc.

as an after thought…

Would starting with say restoring a instrument panel be a good way to start??

regards and thanks

Cliff

Ok Guys, Heres a daft Question…

As a complete newbie what would be a good project to start with. Id love a Vulcan but even i know my limits and the wifes temper :-O

You may wish to trawl through this previous thread…..

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=46227&highlight=cockpit+projects

Ok Guys, Heres a daft Question…

As a complete newbie what would be a good project to start with. Id love a Vulcan but even i know my limits and the wifes temper :-O

If you put a ratchet strap over a painted surface (especially recent paint) it will rub away the surface in a suprisingly short time ,obviously it is worse if there is any movement ,but even on a solid mount it will still happen ; far better to securely fix the cockpit to either a trolley or cradle and strap that to the trailer ,or else fix it to the road trailer direct. The other maddening tendency is that ratchet straps completely drop off one end ,and then do nothing; so a belt and braces approach is my suggestion ,i.e use a trailer winch to secure longitudally (front to back!) And finally I’ll have you know its “mean and horrible” not the other way round ,as all of my ex friends will tell you.

Why not mount it in a shaped cradle as Dave suggests and if you’re worried that gravity won’t be enough chuck a ratchet strap over the whole lot to keep it solid when moving it around?

That is exactly what I do…the ratchet straps are fantasticfor that. I move the cockpits on twin axle car trailers and use about 6 ratchets

That would do the trick. I’d prefer a more permanent (and non damaging) method though. Guess the thing to do is get it on the trailer and see what falls where.

Why not mount it in a shaped cradle as Dave suggests and if you’re worried that gravity won’t be enough chuck a ratchet strap over the whole lot to keep it solid when moving it around?

I think the sea hawk cockpit is close to a ton in weight and although it won’t blow away in the wind, I’m a little wary of lateral forces when towing. I’ll have a think and a sketch for some sort of cradle. Mounting her so she’s level (ooer missus!) will throw even more weight to the back. I did pester Stuart for pics of his mountings but he’s horrible and mean and wouldn’t share 😉

MY biggest concern at the moment is mounting my cockpit to its trailer. The cockpit is pretty **** heavy and I wonder how others have coped ?

Also, while I’ve a god mounting point at the front (nosewheel pivot point) there’s nothing of substance at the rear – bolting through the skin seems inadequate.

Comments please?

Roy.

Roy,

I wouldn’t attempt to bolt it down at the back.

Just have it sit in a curved cradle to prevent side to side movement, and the nose attachment should do the rest. Just let gravity do the work.

Believe it or not, the Shack’ T.4 cockpit VP293 is hardly bolted down at all, its weight does most of the work. 😮

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MY biggest concern at the moment is mounting my cockpit to its trailer. The cockpit is pretty **** heavy and I wonder how others have coped ?

Also, while I’ve a god mounting point at the front (nosewheel pivot point) there’s nothing of substance at the rear – bolting through the skin seems inadequate.

Comments please?

Roy.

I have been there and done it with a very large cockpit section………….if you want to take it around to shows and stuff, it becomes a real ball ache……….even moving a few yards it is a problem.

Big, Heavy, expensive, tiring, money pit………… would never do it again and i would say that working on a real aircraft is more satisfying.