Comets and Nimrods

When was Duxfords Comet scrapped?

When are museums going to start putting our large aircraft under cover and preserve our aviation heritage? I know it’s good to put lots of smaller aircraft into a hanger as the big ones take up so much space but we’ll soon loose all these larger aircraft.

The way we treat what was a worlds first is a discrace! There’s only one complete Comet I know of that’s under cover and that’s the old Dan-Air 4b at the science reserve collection ay wroughton.

Despite the best efforts of the lads at Bruntingthorpe, even my old bird ‘Canopus’ is now suffering and look at the fuss made about that when she retired. There was even an export ban placed on her!

Indeed the differences between the Il-62 and VC10 are clear if you know what to look for. But I still cannot figure out which airframe could’ve been there at the time. As I mentioned the only flying examples in 2002 were RAF ones, so unless they temporarily painted one white for some undercover stuff I cannot find an answer to this puzzle.

One thing I’ve just tried is searching Airliners.net for any likely suspects. I first tried searching for ‘Egypt’ and ‘2002’ and that didn’t give me much. When I tried the same with 2001 as the year I got this photo: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/233251/L/
Obviously an Il-62 that has been sitting there for some time (it’s an ex-Interflug example which has also been in storage in Kiev in 1997). It does look complete to me though, so even though we’ve now got two sightings of a VC10, it would still make more sense to me if it would’ve been this aircraft that was spotted. Perhaps it was sold on and repainted white for its new owner?

As for which VC10 it could have been, have a look at this page on my site: http://www.vc10.net/Data/vickers_vc10_prodnumbers.html It lists all the VC10s built with their eventual fate, for more details have a look in this section: http://www.vc10.net/history_section.html where there is some more info on how certain airframes met their end. For me the conclusion is still ‘impossible’ but if you can prove me wrong, then please do so!! 😎

For what its worth I was in Cairo in September 1999 and recall seeing a VC10 and pointing it out the (future) wife as ‘amazing what you see’. My memory is light overall with no visible markings; I was sure at the time that it wasn’t an IL-62. It was parked in the same general area as Libyan Arab Airlines IL-72. I don ‘t know if LAA every operated either of these types but was surprised to see a Libyan aircraft outside of Libya.

Fair enough Steve,it was just a thought.I have to admit I have trouble telling the two apart without looking specifically for differences, like the cockpit glazing.

Ant, the differences are subtle, but they’re easily recognisable when you know what to look for. Wider engine nacelles on the Classic, longer forward protrusion on the pod at the top of the fin, typically ‘Russian’ cockpit glazing, and of course the IL62 is a longer and more slender aeroplane. Which is why at the time, I very quickly ruled the IL62 out.

I’ve just gone and dug out some of the stuff from that trip, I tend to make notes on trips abroad and do the occassional write up. Something I’ve been doing for years. Now, there’s a slight correction to WHEN I saw it, and that was on arrival at Cairo, not departure. Arrival also being at night, I believe the date was 7th March 2002. The only note I have in the book says “Approach over suburbs of Cairo, city of 21 million. St Ives a long way away. Landed or shot down? VC10 on pan. Armed Egyptian soldiers walking round DC9 (Italian)” … at which point we arrived at the gate and it was time to stop scribbling and get off. 😀

Here’s a photo each of an Il-62 and VC 10-spot the difference!! 😮

Could I suggest that the VC-10 Steve saw was in fact an Ilyushin Il62?They look almost identical from pretty much every angle,and there are plenty with odd number/letter registrations.
Just a thought…

Perhaps more could be revealed if Steve is put under hypnosis?

I thought that was the plan for Old Warden on the 15th, with the help of some Old Speckled Hen… 😎

Archer – Blimey, looks like a bit of a mystery. I did consider it could have been a Classic for a split second when I first saw it, but the closer we got to it, it clearly became a VC10. Thing was, at the time I thought at first that it was quite an odd aeroplane to see sitting there at Cairo, but then knowing that the RAF still fly them operationally, I made the (incorrect) assumption that the breed was still quite common, and therefore decided against getting my camera out… 🙁 I’m intrigued now. Want to know the identity and history.

Eric Mc – the Tay isn’t the engine chosen to power the Nimrod MRA.4 – it’s a Rolls Royce/BMW unit they are using. As for the Nimrod AEW.3 radar it wasn’t
the fault of the unit but the fact that they chose to shoehorn it into a narrow bodied aircraft that had insufficient cooling capability for it. The radar was in many ways superior to the Sentry option.

Thanks for that Steve! It does shed some more light on the issue, but I still cannot see how a VC10 with a reg like that could have been there in 2002. The registration format you describe matches some registrations that were once carried by VC10s, but all of those have either been scrapped or are now flying for the RAF.

These are the matching registrations:
7Q-YKH Air Malawi 1974-1979, a/c scrapped in 1994
5N-ABD Nigeria Airways 1969, a/c written off in crash 1969
9G-ABO Ghana Airways 1964 – 1980, withdrawn from use, stored at Prestwick and scrapped for spares for RAF use.
9G-ABP Ghana Airways 1965 – 1968, leased to MEA and destroyed in Israeli commando raid in 1968
5X-UVA East African Airways 1966 – 1972, destroyed in take off accident
5H-MMT EAA 1966 – 1977, now flying as ZA147 with RAF 101 Sqn
5Y-ADA EAA 1967 – 1977, now flying as ZA148 with RAF 101 Sqn
5X-UVJ EAA 1969 – 1977, now flying as ZA149 with RAF 101 Sqn
5H-MOG EAA 1970 – 1977, now flying as ZA150 with RAF 101 Sqn

Basically there are no complete VC10 fuselages left anywhere in the world, other than those flying with the RAF or the four examples that are in museums.

Which leaves us with an interesting puzzle….

Perhaps more could be revealed if Steve is put under hypnosis?

Steve, would you happen to have any more details about that? As far as I know there should not have been a VC10 there as the last civil one touched down in 1987 with all the others accounted for. It couldn’t have been an Il-62 perhaps?

Hi Archer. All I have is what’s inside the old grey matter. I was in Cairo about two years ago (March 2002), and spotted the aeroplane as my Olympic Flight was taxiing out for departure to Athens. It was a night departure, but the ramp was floodlit, and it was definately a VC10.

I had a window seat on the port side of the airliner, and as we taxied out I had a view of the terminal and then the VC10 on my left. The aeroplane was situated I guess a few hundred yards away from the passenger terminal, at the end of a line of three or four rather tatty looking cargo (?) jets and with various bits of ground equipment around them. I seem to recall it had an obscure “Number Letter – Letter Letter Letter” registration, but I can’t remember what it was, or whether it was on the nacelles or rear fuselage. The floodlighting was yellowish, but I assume the aeroplane was painted mainly white, although I could see no other significant external markings.

VC10, lovely old thing. Saw a rather delapidated civvie example sitting on the ramp at Cairo a couple of years ago. No idea who owns it, whether it’s airworthy, or even whether it still exists now.

Steve, would you happen to have any more details about that? As far as I know there should not have been a VC10 there as the last civil one touched down in 1987 with all the others accounted for. It couldn’t have been an Il-62 perhaps?

There was mention of Duxford’s unfortunate Comet. Here’s a last pic…

Re: Comets and Nimrods

Originally posted by Dave Homewood
…At the end it shows one of Dan Air’s Comets being broken up.

Saw one of those at the Hermeskeil museum last wednesday, in a reasonable state considering it’s parked outside and obligatory lack of funds for such a large private collection. It’s a Comet 4C, G-BDIW, c/n 6470. I made a few pics at the place, i will post them as soon as they are processed (don’t expect too much though).

Finally A view of the largest bomb bay in NATO at Biggin Hill 2003

Eastbourne again

Nimrod at Eastbourne Airshow 2003

Originally posted by LesB
[I]Dave, Canberras were never fighter bombers – only bomber or PR. Exception was the B(I)8 to which a 4-canon gunpack could be fitted (in the rear of the bomb bay) but this made it an interdictor (ground attack) not a fighter. Canberras did of course slot into many different roles but never as a “fighter”. 😉

Cheers Les,

The RNZAF used the Canberra B(I)12, which was apparently much the same as the B(I)8 but had the addition of ejector seats.

I had always assumed that because it replaced the Vampire fighter-bombers, and was itself replaced by the Skyhawk which also filled that role, that the Canberra too had a fighter-bomber capability.

But you prompted me to look it up, and you’re correct, they were used purely as interdiction bombers it seems. We still had Vampires whilst the Canberra served so they must have been the sole fighter capability in the RNZAF at that time.

I guess since those were the days when we used to go off to Asia and fight in the British wars against terrorists there, the need for interdiction bombers was greater than our own defence.

Thanks for enlightening me Les.

Dave

I guess Dimbleby remembers the good old days when Canberras were fighter bombers.

Dave, Canberras were never fighter bombers – only bomber or PR. Exception was the B(I)8 to which a 4-canon gunpack could be fitted (in the rear of the bomb bay) but this made it an interdictor (ground attack) not a fighter. Canberras did of course slot into many different roles but never as a “fighter”. 😉