Complete Me109, (well nearly) recovered in 1976, where is it now?

Thats true….but a face to face “confrontation” aint possible if the door is slammed in your face so to speak.

Indeed, as it is with Hawkinge. It was just the failure to respond to a letter offering a donation to the museum – sent with a SAE! – that rankled. I’d have put up with a “no, sorry”. Call me retentive if you will, but if I have the courtesy to pay for someone’s reply I feel it courteous to make that reply. Or am I living in the past? :confused:

Adrian

I have in the past sent letters and emails to various people (including Duxford) and got nothing back for my labours; theres nothing like a face to face confrontation, if you know what I mean!

No photography at the ‘Terra Cotta Warriors’ in Xian in 1997. 😡

To protect local souvenir cr*p?

Mark

when people ask me if they can take photos I invariably say yes, but its my perogative to say no, and not have to give a reason (as it is anyones).

Indeed, as it is with Hawkinge. It was just the failure to respond to a letter offering a donation to the museum – sent with a SAE! – that rankled. I’d have put up with a “no, sorry”. Call me retentive if you will, but if I have the courtesy to pay for someone’s reply I feel it courteous to make that reply. Or am I living in the past? :confused:

Adrian

Hornchurch, I really don’t want to dissuade you from going, maybe just to guide you (so to speak) ,as previously stated it is a private museum, and as such its up to you to abide by their rules.

It could be that its more of a “collection” ,that is opened up to the public, than a mainstream museum; when people ask me if they can take photos I invariably say yes, but its my perogative to say no, and not have to give a reason (as it is anyones).

I think a lot of the small museums have similiar problems with theft, and sadly vandalism; at the “museum that will remain nameless” (where I once directed the traffic) we had a young lad, who overheard a conversation, r.e the model trainset, the gist of which was , “really all the track needs to come up”.

Somehow he got left inside the building ,unsupervised, for an hour or so , which was enough time for him to rip all the track up!!

Hawkinge

Endless ‘109 ‘Junk’ (artefacts) won’t hold their interest too long, nor will a line of nearly a dozen or so Merlins all dug out of the ground (& looking all the same, to said – Joe Soap & kids).

I was spellbound by some of the stuff there, ‘109 ‘Junk’ n’all :diablo: – seeing the old original R.L.M. 70/71/65 (or 02) paintwork on tail & wing surfaces.

I was particularly taken by the Merlin from a 264 Sqdn Defiant that lived/fought/flew from my namesake, (realising that the crew probably drank in my (ex)-local ‘The Good Intent’).

I.I.R.C, there were 4 or 5 Merlins from Hornchurch (or ex – Hornchurch) a/c on that display line.

Good museum for me, but (surely) dull for ‘Joe Public’ & Co ?

At the risk of dissuading you from visiting a fine museum, its probably worth remembering that not all museum types are anoraks , and I think the currator at Hawkinge, isn’t averse to a little bouncing of his own….

Thanks Stu,
It’ll be a good laugh watching 7/8 of us helping him with…..
(Quote) – ‘ a little bouncing of his own’….. (unQuote), Airfix ‘Weebles wobble’/Haarlem Globetrotter stylee :diablo:

You won’t dissuade me from visiting there, I’ve already been some time ago (2002), alone, (unusually, clean shaven) & (sadly) driving the wife’s previous car (Ford Escort – appropriate or what, given my previous post Re;Seething).

It’s a great museum for hardcore aircraft enthusiasts (like us lot, on this forum), but you can bet your Bottom Dollar that ‘Joe Public & his wife & kids’ won’t find it anywhere near so much fun.

Endless ‘109 ‘Junk’ (artefacts) won’t hold their interest too long, nor will a line of nearly a dozen or so Merlins all dug out of the ground (& looking all the same, to said – Joe Soap & kids).

Do they even know what a ‘Werk nummer’ is, or even care, unlike me or you?

Out of the way & off the beaten track, it is…… family friendly & non-aviation enthusiast magnatizing – IT AIN’T.

Which brings me back to (one of) the point(s) of my first post in this thread.

Alienate the real enthusiast (at your tiny museum) at your own peril.

Bad vibes & no return visits by yourselves, your friends & family (plus other accquaintences you might otherwise have shared with) MULTIPLE TIMES OVER, can & will cause much lost revenue, eventually resulting in possible closure.

It’s already happened at more ‘Joe Public’ friendly places, such as Southend.

Movin on, JDK – being another ****-pot museum, I doubt they’d have the necessary funds, or photo’s to licence, in order to increase security (just like Seething) hence the nervous paranoia within.

True. But I think it is also a Charitable Trust…ie Hawkinge Aeronautical Trust. Although the collection is still privately owned I believe.

At the end of the day if it’s a private museum its down to what they want to do, and who they want to let play with their toys or not as the case may be, i doubt an in depth study into the reasons behind it will be edifying.

Look on the Defiant dig thread its turned into my Hispano is biggerthan yours competition which is one i cannot compete with………..

Well….this thread seems to be adding to the list of “persona non grata” types at said museum. Ho hum!

Another reason that cameras are banned, might be the proliferation of virtual museums on the net, where you get to see everything for nothing; at least in this way you have to visit the place to see what they’ve got.

I don’t think there are any meaningful statistics, but the concept of net data discouraging museum visits seems unlikely. If anything, the internet does often seem to be used as a preliminary to a visit, or a ‘what shall we do today’ exercise.

Anyone here decided not to go to a museum because they found photos on the internet? I don’t think so…

As to the statement on the Museum in question’s web-site preventing photography being ‘common practice’ – that’s simply rubbish. Common with art galleries where intellectual property (IP) is protected, but not in museums. As to no notebooks – I’m sorry, but that’s tending toward paranoia – and ineffective.

In keeping with common practice, on grounds of both security and copyright, we regret that no cameras, video recorders or any other types of recording equipment (including notebooks) are allowed in the Museum.

Nothing to do with copyright, it’s being used as an excuse, as I’d be surprised if the museum owned any meaningful IP, rather than second-hand artefacts and pictures. And if ‘security’ is really the issue, get decent protection. Pay for it by licensing photos etc.

[QUOTE=Hornchurch]Sounds like an interesting recipe…….. if me & a few fellow ‘Grizzly’ types turn up on a ride out, only to have some muppet attempt to take my/our mobile phones & ‘notebooks’ 😀
(I can predict the outcome & the ‘anoraks’ won’t be happy ‘bunnies’, however good their C.C.T.V. skills 😀 ).

Like Dave T says, strange policy, that certainly won’t attract a re-visit from some folks, equalling a (deserved) loss of revenue.
Low attendance & It’ll presumably go the way of Southend’s museum ?

How paranoid d’ya wanna get ? (shades of Mc Carthy’ism’ creeping in).

At the risk of dissuading you from visiting a fine museum, its probably worth remembering that not all museum types are anoraks , and I think the currator at Hawkinge, isn’t averse to a little bouncing of his own….

Another reason that cameras are banned, might be the proliferation of virtual museums on the net, where you get to see everything for nothing; at least in this way you have to visit the place to see what they’ve got.

Try a Terry Thomas voice then, I say…….Hello I am a terrible bounder….what a cad etc……….

Ummmmm….! Ooooh, get away, you are naughty!

Not nasally enough Andy, you need to work on your nasal sounds if you’re gonna expect to get away with it ! :diablo:

Ummmmm….! Ooooh, get away, you are naughty!

Not surprised how you could rejoin aluminium panels with the consistency a paper doyley back together would challenge anyone let alone a small group. So it would have had to have been a full re skin which loses the effect or a tack it together probably every other day as a new bit falls off.

I saw last year two palletts at the back of the hut which i think were the surviving panelling and components, I will show you a picture, oh damn shouldnt have said that just forget that bit………………….

True, but I have no idea what their formal collection policy is. However, it does extend beyond Battle of Britain….eg V1’s, WW1 etc. As you say…scrap in haste repent at leisure. Lots have trodden that path! Getting back on subject, though, the 109 when recovered by Brenzett Museum was going to be “rebuilt” and some work did start but was evetually abandoned.

Stop messin about………..sorry done that one already Moggy will be on my case soon !

It always seemed an odd addition to a Battle of Britain type museum anyway, not in anyway defending scrapping an EE Lightning they must have had a reason maybe someone can inform us ?

The value of EE Lightning complete airframes is increasing greatly these days so probably they do regret it now, at the least it would have been a good trade commodity. But many museums do scrap in haste and repent in future years..

Probably get the disguise from Kenneth Williams c/o the Stork Hotel….sorry! If you get in with the disguise you could ask about the Lightning they cut up after a lot of people went to a lot of effort to get it for them, including having it flown in by USAF helicopter! A shame.

Not sure I know the reasons for the security either but I am aware of other museums I have been to again of the smaller type and been escorted round some of it due to theft, bolting the stable door approach i think.

I have heard of some very intricate thefts involving dismantling display cases, while the museum was open.

Doesnt the Tangmere museum not allow photography either these days, seem to think the newer management there dont, may be wrong !

Didnt know about the list, bet I am on it now for spilling the beans, anyone know where I can get a false nose, moustache and glasses ?