Concorde discussion thread & AF4590 – What if?

I suppose fitting it with cameras would have supplemented our Canberra 9s and although not stealthy, flown b*lls out at max altitude, it might have been useful. It has to be remembered, in the 70s we had an air force, why waste resources on trying to make a combat machine out of a business class (quick) bus. Who was going fly it? What other equipment was needed to make it capable: chaff dispensers, flares, missile detector, radar (not the Wx radar it’s fitted with), comms, weapons, paint job, the list would be endless. The sort of war we envisaged back then would have probably overtaken events with Concord and therefore it was/would have been useless.

Not being an aerodynamicist, I have to ask- wouldn’t that slow it down dramatically?

The proposal I seem to recall was for fitting Skybolt (externally) to Concorde – can’t remember whether it was one or multiple.

Roger Smith.

I can remember this topic first time round back in the 70s.

An engineer ( at the time ) told me the Bombcord was looked at but not seriously as the mods would be prohibitive. All would have to be new builds and designed from the outset. If we had gone to war at the time and Concord was impressed into service, it would have only been as a high speed ‘hack’

Setting someone loose with an angle grinder and a mig welder on this aeroplane was a no go.

There was definitely a ‘bombcorde’ design projected – got a few images somewhere which I used in a piece of coursework for University in first year

sure that wasnt the Avro 730?

the two designs side by side look EXTREMELY similar 😉

I do remember seeing some illustrations laying around in Hanger 529 office (what is now the main Hanger 1) at Cosford of Concorde with bomb bay doors, perhaps the little grey cells were working in another direction?,

Physically not that much larger, but rewinged and with non-afterburning engines:

http://www.concordesst.com/concordeb.html

Doomed or not, She did something that not many machines in history have achived – It captured the hearts of so many different people.

does anyone have any drawings of the large aircraft?

Concorde in it’s as built configuration was doomed from the word go as a revenue earner, as can be seen in all the early documentory’s (not so much the later stuff) she was a test piece, a proof of concept. The real revenue plane was much bigger but was never built due to financial and technolgy constraint’s of the time.

Plus the US designs never got off the ground….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_2707

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_L-2000

Sounds about right! Don’t get me wrong, the american’s have made some truly great machines, but the classic mentality is always “just make it bigger” Not really suprising the revolutionary VC-10 and HS Trident were not successful overseas. Which is exactly why Concorde was slated by them – Because it was just better than anything they had, fuel consumption and noise aside.

‘it’s better than ours so we’ll get shirty about it’… Hmmm

Very interesting comment. I’ll have to have a read of that book.
I see your from Kent – Did you ever see Concorde take off from Manston in the early 90’s? I think it could of been circa 93/94. I’ve also heard a 727 take off from Manston before too – I don’t suppose the americans made a song and dance about the racket that thing made!
Interestingly, I think the BAC 1-11 and VC-10 were also two types that were under scrutiny from the colonials, anyone see a pattern developing?

In Christopher Orlebar’s excellent book on Concorde, it is told how the American’s accusations about Concorde’s noise pollution went very quiet when noise tests at J.F.K. revealed that the then ‘Air Force One’ made more noise on takeoff. . .

Back in the late seventies my family used to holiday in Cornwall, we stayed at the same house for a few years running and my parents used to notice on Wednesday? nights, the big lounge window this place had used to go ‘THUMP’ once, about the same time always, we think it was when Concorde went through the sound barrier on the way out to the Bay of Biscay.

One of the thoughts I shared PBY, hence my comment about ‘envious Americans’…

I have read many reports and discussions on the accident to AF 4590. I have as yet never found any answer to my question.
On 22nd August 1985 G-BGJL Boeing 737-236 on take off at Manchester Airport suffered an uncontained engine failure which punctured wing fuel tanks, causing a fuel fed fire which destroyed the aircraft and killed some of the occupants.
On 25th July 2000 F-BTSC Concord ( spelling intentional) on take off at Paris suffered an undercarriage/tyre failure which punctured wing fuel tanks, causing a fuel fed fire which destroyed the aircraft and killed the occupants.
Goodness knows how many millions of £s, $s or Euros were spent putting racing car type kevlar linings in Concorde wing tanks, having grounded the entire fleet almost at once, and ultimately sounded the death knell.
What if anything has ever been done to correct the similar (apparent) tank weakness in the Boeing 737 ?
Your comments and observations appreciated.
Be lucky
David

Interesting observation – I can’t help thinking that Connie was used as a bit of a scape goat – Many other types have experienced tragic and catastrophic errors (The consecutive DC-10 cargo door disasters spring to mind), but gone back into service without a hitch.
Another thing i’ve always thought, which is probably common knowledge, is that the yanks were constantly trying to urinate on our bonfire, because we had a supersonic airliner, and they didn’t?

Wrong thread methinks……………..

I have read many reports and discussions on the accident to AF 4590. I have as yet never found any answer to my question.
On 22nd August 1985 G-BGJL Boeing 737-236 on take off at Manchester Airport suffered an uncontained engine failure which punctured wing fuel tanks, causing a fuel fed fire which destroyed the aircraft and killed some of the occupants.
On 25th July 2000 F-BTSC Concord ( spelling intentional) on take off at Paris suffered an undercarriage/tyre failure which punctured wing fuel tanks, causing a fuel fed fire which destroyed the aircraft and killed the occupants.
Goodness knows how many millions of £s, $s or Euros were spent putting racing car type kevlar linings in Concorde wing tanks, having grounded the entire fleet almost at once, and ultimately sounded the death knell.
What if anything has ever been done to correct the similar (apparent) tank weakness in the Boeing 737 ?
Your comments and observations appreciated.
Be lucky
David