December 8, 2005 at 3:20 pm
Most learned gentlemen in all manner of aircraft, I throw my humble question at your feet:
The scenario is the following:
About a month ago I watched a very interesting program on the Discovery Channel called “Flying heavy metal”. A large part of the program focused on the Concorde, during which the presenter mention that for as long as the Concorde was in operation the RAF did not have a plane fast enough to catch it. What an amazing though, that a commercial plane would be faster than anything the RAF possessed at the time.
On Saturday night some friends and I were attending a social gathering during which I happened to mention the above fact. A friend of mine ( Charlie ) took great umbrage with the statement, and explained quite emphatically that this could not be the case as he was certain that the Tornado would have been faster ( Given the parameters of the statement, he was referring to the Tornado F3 ).
Surely you have been in the situation were one of your facts are taken into question and you are left with no option but to defend said fact at all cost, even if the source is the drummer of “Iron maiden” (the presenter of the program “Flying heavy metal”). As you would know these discussions usually end in a bet, ours was no different. The loser would be the winner’s butler for an entire weekend during our next climbing trip. Although this might not seem like much of a forfeit believe me that the reality of carrying 2 backpacks instead of one, having to be cook, coffee maker, cleaner-upper, washer-upper and generally being bossed around for pure entertainment is no joke and one which I would preferably avoid at all cost.
In order to settle this bet I have scoured the web looking for information and this is the result of my research ths far:
“While the Concorde was in operation the RAF did’nt have a plane in service that could catch it.”
• For this statement to be wrong it must mean that:
1. The RAF had a plane that could fly faster at the same altitude (or higher) thanthe Concorde.
2. That the above mentione plane was in service with the RAF between 21 1976 and 30 Augustes 2003.
1. Concorde specifications:
Top speed = Mach 2.23
o Achieved on the 7’th of February 1996 during a flight between London and New York ( 5585 km) that lasted 2 hours 52 minutes and 59 seconds (from take-off to touch down)
(http://www.britishairways.com/concorde/aboutconcorde.html#facts_figures)
Maximum altitude = 60 000 ft
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/jetliner/concorde/
2. RAF planes:
The most important RAF planes for this exercise:
Tornado F3
Mach 2.2 50 000 ft 1986 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Tornado_F3
Tornado G4
Jaguar GR3
Harrier GR7
The top speeds were collected from the RAF site http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/index.html
So upto here everything was going fine until I happened to mention this to Charlie, his reply was simply “What about the Phantom”. Phantom, what Phantom, the RAF had Phantoms???
Suddenly things did’nt look quite as rosy anymore. I started looking for information on the Phantom and the first bits of information was very troubling the speeds published ranged upto Mach 2.6 and the ceiling upto 64 000 ft. Until I discovered the fact that the British Phantoms had the Spey Torbofan engines fitted them slower at high altitude, in fact the Phantom FGR2 was only Mach 2.06 ( http://www.vogue-web.ch/f4/f4_24.html ).
Hapiness, brilliant, it seems like the documentary was right but then the final bloody clincher.
According to Wikipedia:
” in 1984, the RAF purchased a total of 15 F-4J aircraft second-hand from the US Navy to increase its interceptor force following the Falklands War (which saw a Phantom squadron posted to the islands) prior to the introduction of the Tornado.”
According to another source the RAF purchased these Phantoms “as is”, with their original engines in tact. Despite several hours on the web I have been unable to find information spesific to this model.
After all that this is my basic question:
Did the Phantom F-4J fly faster than Mach 2.23 at 60 000 ft? And if so; for how long could it maintain that speed?