Convair Unrecognised?

I also remember the 990’s of that period, but for a different reason, that of always emitting large amounts of “smoke” (see previous pic), must say that it is also so similar to the early KC135’s at Mildenhall etc. Of course all of these were designed before the phrase “global warming” was invented ! oh happy daze ? Keith.

The CV 880 and 990 always were impressive aircraft. I remember the 990s of Spantax at Gatwick and of Swissair at Heathrow in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Also the Martinair 640s at Gatwick about the same time. Those were the days!

Made my first long distance travel in a 990 – after all the short flights with Viscounts and DC6s.

The CV440 was SAS’ workhorse in domestic and short haul traffic in Scandinavia, their retirement in 1977 being marked with a 3-ship formation around Denmark. Can’t say that type of aircraft is not well regarded in that part of the world!

CV880 & 990

The CV 880 and 990 always were impressive aircraft. I remember the 990s of Spantax at Gatwick and of Swissair at Heathrow in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Also the Martinair 640s at Gatwick about the same time. Those were the days!

I forgot the pogo, which was really something. The radial engine must have been super powerful. OK for takeoff but did they ever land it backwards, which would be very difficult for the pilot? I seem to remember two planes of this type, what make was the other one?
Bri 🙂

It was a super powerful Turboprop, a 5,500 hp Allison YT40A16 driving contra props. It did indeed have to land backwards, the pilots seat was swiveled slightly for this process. There is film of it flying, it seemed to have two speeds, very fast in flight, and very slow raising and lowering. The transition from forward flight to alighting on the ground is interesting to watch! The test pilot was the well known ‘Skeets’ Coleman, and the aircraft still survives in the National Air and Space Museum.

Youtube footage here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVT3Go1lr3c
In fact if you type in Convair you will find incredible footage of Convair types, especially B-36, B-58 and Sea Dart

The other type was a Lockheed submission to the same specification, designated XFV (believe loosly named ‘Salmon’). it had a more conventional landing technique!

Don’t forget the military versions of the 240/340/440…that adeded a few hundred to the total production as navigator trainers (T-29) and transports (C-131).
The airliners went onto have long lives, many were converted into turboprops, some with Rolls engines (Convair 600), and many more with Allisons (580s). They were popular with U.S. regional airlines like North Central, Southern, Alleghany, Peidmont, and Lake Central well into the 1970s.
Even a few USAF 131s were converted to turboprops as C-131Hs..a couple served with the 89 MAW for White House support.

“The “lack of kickbacks” when speaking of Convair is silly, most of its business was from the military and still is in the form of the GD F-16 program (remember those?:D ). Theyre also in on the F-35.

They also made a ton of money with the Atlas Missile program…started out as an ICBM and is still in production and use as a satellite launch vehicle.

I don’t have my books at hand but the pogo wasn’t powered by a radial piston engine…it was a turbo-prop.
The 880 (not 660) and 990 program was a huge financial hit for them. I believe their losses on the program were the largest ever incurred by a US firm up to that time.

Not sure what your’e getting at here Bri.

Just thought I would stimulate a bit of discussion and, hopefully, some pictures of great Convair planes!

The 660 was a real beauty of an airliner. Think I saw some owned by a French airline in Darwin (TAE?) in about 1960.

I forgot the pogo, which was really something. The radial engine must have been super powerful. OK for takeoff but did they ever land it backwards, which would be very difficult for the pilot? I seem to remember two planes of this type, what make was the other one?

Bri 🙂

Not sure what your’e getting at here Bri.

Bit of a Convair (CONsolidated Vultee AIRcraft) fan myself and I thought they were well recognised. The company carried on under its own name until the mid 1960s when it became a division of General Dynamics.

‘They didn’t get huge orders from the military, and went bust in the end’

The B-36 order was one of the largest (and contentious) aircraft orders of the post war era.
I don’t know exact numbers of F-102 and 106s built (1400 ish), I do know there were alot of them, for both USAF use and continued overseas airforces service.
The Hustler programme was also a large and expensive order, even if only 116 were built and only saw ten years of USAF service.
Convair also had a large missile division and did go into the space programme in the early 1960s, reducing the size of their aircraft programmes at the same time.
They certainly knew how to push the boundaries and the Tradewind, XF-92, Sea Dart and ‘Pogo’ were all radical aircraft that successfully fulfilled testing and research programmes.
Militarily they had a sparkling career, and the F-16 developement can be traced back through GD and its Convair Div.

With the civil aircraft programme I get the feeling it was more of an ‘aside’ for Convair, but again successful.
240, 340, 440, 540 etc civil twins were well respected, maybe not aswel known because not as radical as longer range and larger capacity Constellation and Stratocruiser etc. But they saw use with many airlines (30+), and a quite a few military customers.
880 and 990 a bit expensive and slightly too small, and possibly too late coming into the DC-8 and 707/720 market, the 990 though was the fastest airliner until Concorde.