Corgi Mosquito – Oh dear!

Hi Bruce,

I agree with you on the books – 100%!!!

I’ve been updating my Mosquito files, if you want I’ll put it all down onto CD. There plenty of stuff there. Much of it, I think you’ll have seen. But you never know there might be the old gem!

Cheers,
Neilly

Hi Neil,

I dont know the answer, so I will bow out. I certainly understand what you are saying, but the fact that the serial is painted out is bugging me.

The fact is, and you will I am sure agree with me on this one – too many of the Mosquito reference books are full of innaccuracies. We pick holes in them every time one is issued. Too many times, other authors use previously published references and treat them as gospel, so we end up with the myth perpetuated, until no-one knows what the truth is!

Incidentally, I would love to see your photo collection sometime – you have some real gems!

Cheers for now

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Several things;
LR 507 was on 105 Sqd’s Charge before Tony arrived. So the photo was taken well into operational life, with 105 Sqd. The Mossie doesn’t look as though it’s just been repainted, very recently, if at all.
Would the RAF go to the trouble of repainting an aircraft? 105 Sqd Mosquitoes still kept their original day bomber colour scheme, even after they were transferred to night bombers. Why repaint an aircraft that might be shot down on the next sortie? LR 504 still retained it’s black underside, even after it changed from 109 to 105 Sqd.
I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed high flying aircraft, but it doesn’t matter what colour scheme they have, at altitude, they’re just a black cross in the sky!

Cheers,
Neilly

All

Thankyou for your comments back, appreciate you taking the time. I’ll reply to any questions directly if that’s OK (just so nobody thinks I’m ignoring any issues or questions raised). But just for the record on one point, as the man responsible for every ‘box top’, I have never used anything but our own hand-made, resin models or pre-production factory samples. We have never used a plastic kit, nor based a model on a plastic kit any similarities and I cannot stress this strongly enough, are purely coincidental. Your decision to buy or not to buy is of course then completely up to you, hopefully some of you do like what we do.

Thanks.

Guys

Lets not bitch about the Corgi range in general – these guys are true enthusiasts, who are working very hard to provide a service. It is not my ‘bag’ and I have never purchased any of them, but they bring a great deal of pleasure to those that are into that sort of thing. Also, if the man who runs the outfit says that its not a plastic model, then I for one am not going to argue!!

Owing to the fact that in Neillys earlier pictures, the serial of the aircraft is painted out, I do wonder if it was repainted when it joined 105 squadron. Neilly, your reference might well be right – the finish did not change during its time with 105 squadron, but did it have a different finish with 109?? I dont know, and I havent yet had a delve through my references to find out! Yours are probably better than mine anyway!!

And yes, Eddie, I thought about that comment last night – the engines are still short, but I can accept the compromise, as it would be horrendously expensive for Corgi to retool for that! At least they have made the effort by changing the engines to look correct!

One last thing; Robhi – any chance of a prototype Mosquito some time?? It would be a good vehicle for the museum to raise cash for its restoration!! Send me a PM if you think there might be any mileage.

Cheers

Bruce

each to their own damien, frankly i wouldnt touch one but then thats my opinion, I believe everyone is allowed one of those these days?

And I think you’d better go and look at some of your box tops, as I was told of a particular aircraft pictured being a hasegawa model, and it is easy to see the main differences(just look at the tailwheels).

Perhaps I am incorrect in stating that you have ‘copied’ models however I am correct in stating that selling a product by advertising a diff product is fairly dodgy.

coanda

I thought I’d better add DZ 353, just to prove a point!

Hi Robhi,

Firstly, I would like to point out that my main aviation interest (as you may notice – Mosquito Anorak, under my name) is the Mosquito & particularly 8 Group PFF, of which 105 & 109 Squadrons were a part of.

I knew exactly where you got your information from, as I have all those books & many more! I would add that if you’d read Combat Colours 5 & looked at the colour drawing (the line drawing on my earlier post came from this book, & that’s taken from the official de Havilland Mosquito colour guide), then you would notice the grey/green camoflage pattern is the wrong way round. This is just one example.

I would add that just because you see something in a book, doesn’t mean it’s correct! A simple example; You give the the aircraft code for DZ 353 as GB-F, taken from Combat Colours? This is wrong, the correct code is GB-E & this is probably the most photographed Mosquito of all! So you see it’s very easy to say this is right, just because it’s in a book! I think if you check Mosquito by Sharp & Bowyer you’ll find a line drawing of LR 507, showing black underside, dated 12/04/44.

I also checked with S/Ldr. Tony Farrell DFC, who flew LR 507 regularly & he was very disappointed that Corgi had; a. painted ‘his’ Mossie in the wrong colours & b. no-one had bothered to get in touch with him to check the details. To answer Bruces’ question, Tony flew with 105 Squadron

I still maintain I’m correct & if you’d like to pop round, anytime I’m at home, I’d be most pleased to show you all my Mosquito info. I live in Leicester, just off the Uppingham Road.

Which brings me to a question, for you to answer. If you were going to have a Mosquito B IX model, why did you not use LR 503? This Mosquito flew a record breaking 213 operational sorties, no other Allied aircraft flew more sorties.

And finally I’ve added another picture. It’s in Classic Aircraft No7 Mosquito:)

Cheers,
Neilly

ps. take a close look at the last sentence.

Fair enough.

One question though robhi, you say;

I do not fudge or use artistic licence

So how come the hood jettison stencilling on most of my Hunters says “all we need to do is keep on talking” instead of “hood jettison break window pull to release”? 😉

Well, it’s not exactly wrong, is it Bruce? They are still short, but modified to look like the two stage engines. From the top they do still look like the single stage engines. An understandable comprimise, though.

Cant say fairer than that

The pictures posted by Neilly appear to be of the aircraft when with 105 squadron. I note the text that says it was on strength with 109 for only 19 days. I wonder then if it was repainted with 105 sqn later.

So Neilly, did your man fly with 105 or 109??

Oh, and my comment on short engines is clearly wrong!!

Cheers

Bruce

Our Decoration Guide;

Camouflage reference below;

It’s interesting that when all of you sit their and post, in some cases what I consider slanderous, insulting and dare I echo your comments lazy and badly researched comments about a company in fact it’s a person that you are hurling these comments at. Well guess what, that person is ME, and can I just say that maybe if some of you people would actually have taken the time to check your facts first before posting some of these comments then perhaps you may have decided against them. First let me address the main thrust of theis thread, the Pathfinder Mosquito. Shockingly, I did do some research on this aircraft and didn’t just dream it up in between playing games and making personal phone calls. In fact the main piece of reference came from Osprey Aviation’s ‘Mosquitos of World War II’,originally published 1995.
The artwork attached depicts GB-F as it appeared during June 1943 – matt black undersides with ocean grey/dark green upper surfaces. SAM Publications book ‘The De Havilland Mosquito’ by Richard A. Franks refers to the camouflage pattern thus: (caption next to top-view illustration of camouflage pattern applied to aircraft) ‘Scrap view showing the typical upper camouflage pattern of the Mosquito, which is applicable to both bomber and fighter versions’. Further notes refer to the Oboe version
as having its original medium sea grey undersides painted over with ‘Night Black’. As regards the glazed nose being painted over: the text makes note of the fact that the glazed area was generally painted out for security reasons, an accompanying photograph in the above mentioned modellers guide shows clearly that although the glazing was painted at one time, the paint has weathered of rendering the glazed area virtually transparent again! Illustrations in the Osprey book show all Oboe aircraft with standard unpainted glazing on the nose area. a publication that is considered by many to be very well researched and offers very good and solid reference. The illustration is attached. On top of this I used Scale Aircraft Modelling’s publication (Combat Colours 5) which I notice is used above for reference and this shows not only GB-F on a B IV in the colour scheme the gentlemen talks about (here coded DZ353) but also shows two B IX aircraft (one also of 109 Squadron, ML907) and LR505 of 139 Squadron in the exact same colour scheme (including the pattern) that we have used on our model. I also used Flying Colours which depicts LR508 of 105 Squadron in the OBOE scheme, which again clsoely matches that of our model. Regarding the differences to the aircraft itself please also see below the deco guide we use in production that clearly shows that the external changes have been made. Which brings me to my next point. The models photographed do often differ from the production model itself. The reason being quite simply that in order to meet deadlines for packaging and catalogue we have to get a handmade pre-production sample made that we can shoot. This often comes before we have been able to make any amendments to the tooling and in some cases the decoration has errors on it. We NEVER EVER use plastic kits for copying or shooting and this comment in particular I take huge offence at. Also, we do not have any issues with trade descriptions because we make it very clear on the packs and in the brochure should you take the time to check that the model featured is a pre-production sample and we may make changes for the purposes of accuracy. I would love to meet anybody who would rather have the model as pictured in an incorrect state than have a slightly different but far more accurate version just because that is what is pictured. Finally in regard to general comments about my research and ‘laziness’. For those who aren’t aware the UK office of Corgi houses just 45 staff. From that we have just 4 product managers responsible for every item released by the company (this year that will be approx. 400 models). I myself am responsible for several ranges including the Aviation Archive, a range I am very proud of and dedicate a huge amount of time to. I personally research and reference every model aided by several equally dedicated external researchers who help me where and when I need it. Contrary to your beliefs I do not make up liveries, I do not fudge or use artistic licence and I do not solely use one illustration if photographic evidence exists. I take approximately 4 months to research one 6 month range and get the hand decorated models done. Mistakes do occur, obviously but I try to keep these to a mimimum and in fact get disappointed to the same levels as I assume you all do when these occur. Perhaps in future you could all do a little more research and fact checking of your own before deciding to hurl insults and defamation at somebody simply trying to do his job to the best of his ability with the resources and time available.

I’ve seen them out of the box……

You know why they look markedly different on the box to whats in the box?

because they are quite often plastic models made up so that they can be copied. So paint schemes are often wrong (just look at the He111 in the squiggly mid east paint scheme)and even structural differences are glaringly obvious…….somthing I think they fall foul of with the Trades Description Act.

coanda

Hang fire for a second chaps.

Has anyone actually seen one out of its box? It wouldn’t be the first time Corgi have released pre production photos of their latest model showing a few mistakes but when you finally see the model in the flesh all the mistakes have been rectified. Corgi appear to be slightly unusual in that what is contained in the box is usually better that what’s shown on the box.

Anne

Originally posted by coanda
research=profit loss.

Not necessarily. There are enough knowledgable people out there (such as on this forum) who are willing to provide information without charge that there is no excuse for such inaccuracies. It boils down to laziness on the part of Corgi staff, whom it would appear, can’t be bothered to try and get things correct. As long as it looks near enough right, it’ll do. Not at the prices they charge, though! For that money, I personally would want it 100% accurate!

research=profit loss. not enough diff to do it I expect….it pleases the masses which at the end of the day is what they are all about.

then again, I’ve NEVER seen a corgi replica I would buy.

coanda

Hi All,

I suppose I ought to say what I think is wrong with the colour scheme.
1. The underside should be medium ocean grey, not black.
2.The grey on the upper surface is far to light. Looks more like med.ocean grey, rather than dark ocean grey.
3.LR 507 was an Oboe Mosquitol, therefore the glass area at the front of the fuz, should be painted over, to hide the Oboe equipment.
4.This final one should get me Anorak of the Month award:) . The camoflage grey/green pattern is the wrong way round. The pattern is for the fighter/fighter bomber version ie the grey & the green should be the other way round. De Havilland used the same (or similar) drawing for the camoflage pattern, right from the early days of the Mosquito. So if a Mosquito rolled out of Percivals, for example, it would look almost identical to one that had just rolled out of dH Hatfield.

On the picture below the dark pattern would be green on the bomber & dark ocean grey on the fighter/fighter bomber.

Now it’s time to go lie down in a darken room & take my pills;)

Cheers,
Neilly