Cosford is just ace!

I haven’t read through all of the posts completely and so apologies if this repeats a point already made. The majority, if not all contributors here have a genuine interest in aviation and the displaying of aircraft to their best effect and are entitled to their opinions, whatever they may be. However, I guess the aim of the museum is to get Joe Public through the front doors and therefore will Joe Public, as opposed to a genuine enthusiast really care about HOW the exhibits are displayed, as long as they can see them? Just a thought.

If there is a ghost on the Lincoln it is a friendly one.

re

To get back on track I was must admit I was disapointed at the lack of model kits in the shop, where as Hendon have a reasonable variety.

Apart from books the shop is the real down point. And the catering. BRING A PICNIC I would recomend.

On the subject of taking pictures. The aircraft have been there for over 20 years! Look at that poor old Britannia by the gate, would any enthusiast worth talking too, rather see them decaying outside than indoors, polished and in good shape? Personally if I was in charge, would have had a building designed where they could be rolled out for airshows etc, but never mind.

Its not like there isnt anywhere else you can go and take pics of a lightning, Vulcan, Victor etc (ok, the Valiant is an exception) and sorry but a picture of a Hunter landing at Waddington is one: going to look damn good on my wall. and 2: make me a few quid selling copies. A hunter hanging from the ceiling at Cosford isnt!

I am puzzled why the Jetstream isnt in the trainer/transport hangar and would have thought the Lincoln would have gone in with the Canberra, Vulcan line up.

Talking of which, has anyone else experianced weird things concerning the Lincoln? I damn well did, lets just say I got the hell out of its way!

…. a crash course in diplomacy?

Far too late for that – but I have contacted the gentleman by PM.

Moggy

Russ.

I hope you have not departed this forum yet.

If you are the chap who used to operate deep in the heart of LFA9 not too long ago, then I for one will certainly respect your opinion. If you are not that person then I’m afraid that I will still respect your opinion.

And so will the majority of those who post here.

Moggy. Could I recommend a crash course in diplomacy?

time for you to go moggy

shut the door after you

Cosford

That comment was not aimed at you, nor at any of the others who have decided that I was talking about them.

Moggy. Might I suggest that you take a moment to think about your language (moderate it, perhaps?) before you go to print? You say your comment was not aimed at anyone in particular yet it is a pretty concise response to my humble submission of an hour previously. I took it to be a warm welcome on your part to a new member who had the temerity to air his views.

What I said will not be changed by anybody expressing their opinions here is the policy that big lottery money to big national museums equals ‘landmark architecture’ (Whatever that is.)

It took me some time to translate this in to English. However, as a final comment on this subject – and this forum – I would assume that there is a slight chance that people who have a say in the use of lottery money may read threads. A long shot, I realise, but it is just conceivable that the opinions of those people interested/involved in the preservation of aircraft may influence decisions on future museum expansions. That aside, I maintain that the Cold War building is poor value for money and, therefore, an extravagance.

I was under the impression the exhibition was about the Cold War as a whole, bringing together under one roof different aspects from that era, including the social & political ones, not merely the aviation hardware involved (i.e. a museum for future/younger generations).

If they have failed woefully after the money spent, please let me know and i’ll not visit. As it stands, i’m very much looking forward to seeing ‘artifacts’ from my era when the Russkies were the bad guys not the Taliban.

Thats the idea – hence cold war exhibition. Only gripe is, it condems propaganda but gives the impression we are the saviours of the world, and totally faultless!

Any idea why the York has windows blacked over? Pity it doesnt have its doors open like the other transports. The Belfast would make a wonderful hands on exhibit.

Hi all just got back to looking at this thread again.

Originally Posted by TwinOtter23
IMHO long-term aircraft preservation also may be questionable with the possibility of corrosion from the rusty building frame dropping onto the airframes.

With my Structural Enginners hat on I did notice the internal steel frame at Cosford was of a ‘rusty’ appearance, do not be alarmed. This is common practice in the USA, the material is called ‘Corten Steel’ sometimes refered to as weathering steel, its most commonly used outside were its appearance changes as the years go by, I have seen it used on bridges and sculptures but never indoors. I think that the designers are using it as a cheaper option than painting. From a structural point a wonder how long it will be before barriers or an internal screen needs to be erected in front on the Teflon gable ends. It looks to me as though the gable ends (where to hangar doors should be) are made of the same stressed fabric as use on the roof of the Millenimum Dome, this stuff is water proof and very strong, but can easily be damaged by constant rubbing of thousands of little fingers.
Something I did not notice was any form of fire supression equipment, maybe a water sprinker system is there somewhere but I would doubt that a roof level system would have enough clout if a fire were to start at ground level in one of the Video display units or the Kitchen (another reason to relocate that ASAP). Come to think of it I did not see any emergency exit signs either, so in my opion thay are not doing there job properly.

Comments about missing items makes me think why has Cosford not yet got a Hercules ? Several have been used for spares at Cambridge and a least a dozen went back to USA. Obviously there is no room in the new building but not allowing for future exhibits is very short sighted.

DOUGHNUT

I actually found the whole package much more thought provoking than the NCWE – but presumably that’s horses for courses

My thought was “I wish I’d waited until they could afford to put some exhibits in”

But as you say your horse / my horse.

Moggy

I can reassure you though, however bad it is, it will be a million miles better than IWM North.

Moggy

I posted my comments here when the NCWE Origami thingy first opened – I think they accord with many of the views expressed here – around visibility, access and the shop as well as the absence of any fit in the built environment

OK – there’s very little hardware at IWM North but I actually found the whole package much more thought provoking than the NCWE – but presumably that’s horses for courses

Is it bleating because I mentioned that I find the current layout of the museum shop to be cramped beyond belief and therefore ensuring any meaningful access is denied to a wheelchair user?

Kev, do stop trying to pick a fight where none exists. That comment was not aimed at you, nor at any of the others who have decided that I was talking about them.

What I said will not be changed by anybody expressing their opinions here is the policy that big lottery money to big national museums equals ‘landmark architecture’ (Whatever that is.)

It had nothing to do with the size of the shop or the disabled access, these things should form an intrinsic part of any worthwhile architecture. If Cosford falls down here, and I have no reason to doubt your judgement, then the building is deeply flawed.

But I haven’t and won’t comment on the building further as I haven’t seen it.

I can reassure you though, however bad it is, it will be a million miles better than IWM North.

Moggy

Please excuse my naivety here, but what is the difference between the NCWE and some of the bog standard hangers other aircraft get housed in? …

WL747

I’m sure all those people who have put 1000’s of hours raising the partnership funding for ‘bog standard’ hangars will be slightly saddened by the description used, me included!

Still at least the ‘bog standards’ have enabled more aircraft to be put under cover.

Like you I am willing to be proved wrong on the corrosion point – time will tell.

Judging from your user name I suspect like me you have an interest in Shackletons, why were the type and its huge Cold War role not covered in the new building at Cosford? After all do the RAFM not have an AEW.2 on loan in Manchester; A big mistake IMHO.

Seaking93

‘regional basis’ Heritage Lottery Fund grants as I am sure you know cover projects to a value of £2 million – IMHO not an insignificant project cost in terms of the UK’s non-flying aviation preservation movement; One that I have been proud to be involved with for more than 34 years.

Pondskater

Yes, the large projects do set different standards but at present with what I have personally seen, I do not hesitate to question whether or not the standards are being met. Yet again time will tell.

After visiting the new exhibition, this is my humble opinion.

Love parts of it.

Dissapointed by most of it.

Useful camera angles few and far between.

Jetstream sitting where a complete Phantom should be.

Size of the shop is a joke.

Can’t argue about the number of airframes under (rusty) cover or the number of people inside. Agree with Kev about the lack of information boards though.

Must go again to see the Victor – I didn’t notice it was there!

Overall I found the exhibition a tadge gimmicky.

Worth a visit if only to form an opinion.

Dakkg651

PS. Does anyone have a set of decent MiG 21 mainwheel tyres they could donate to the museum?

Seafuryfan you like me may be in a minority on here but talking to other visitors around Cosford I would say we are both in the Majority. Cosford like all Museums must sell itself to a wide audience to survive and I for one believe the Cold War Exhibition is the Jewel in Cosfords Crown.

What a great thread.

‘Blimey’, am I one of the only ones to marvel at the Cold War hangar? Perhaps. I think the realisation of two opposites struggling, with the result of a twisted, fantastic shape, to be superb. To me, it’s not just about a hangar housing aircraft, it’s the whole package, and I can’t wait to see it for real.

As for the aircraft displayed at ‘crazy’ angles, simply brilliant. I admire aircraft for their form and lines. Someone posted on the board some amazing photos of the Duxford Concorde. The way the light caught the subtle lines of the aircraft was just sublime. Likewise, I really look forward to standing near the jetpipe of a vertically climbing Lightning and ‘imagining’ myself right there at the moment the pilot climbs skywards. Yes, kids may say ‘it looks as if one or two are crashing’, but who knows the positive dramatic effect these suspended aircraft will have on many, even to us old ‘uns!

I may be in the minority here, but the museum looks excellent and I am really looking forward to visiting it with my boys.

IMHO long-term aircraft preservation also may be questionable with the possibility of corrosion from the rusty building frame dropping onto the airframes.

Please excuse my naivety here, but what is the difference between the NCWE and some of the bog standard hangers other aircraft get housed in?

My current work in the offshore industry is in one of the most corrosive of environments. Our aluminium constructed equipment gets stuck into sea water, and through careful care and management, after 10 years of operation, still hasn’t corroded away. Ok, the mild steel parts need constant attention, but IIRC aircraft aren’t built of mild steel.

I can’t see flaked rust from the building causing a problem if we can stick our aluminium equipment into the North Sea for 10 years with no major problems. Surely if the aircraft are given a wipe every couple of years or so, I can’t see there being an issue….

I’m prepared to be proved wrong though….

Scotty

The paperwork for the application has increased beyond all reason, the smaller hangar type buildings have been granted money probably because they fall below the national grant level and are dealt with on a regional basis which seems to be less of a nightmare to achieve.

That’s my understanding of how the HLF work. The majority of their grants are quite small scale and often administered entirely regionally. When it comes to one of the few big projects such as we’re talking about, they set different standards, control them from head office and will look for a big landmark design. Don’t assume that you could use all the money for a larger, cheaper building.

But HLF also care deeply about support for projects – so do make your views known. If a project does not not have widespread public support they will be very concerned.

……That’s the way of it, and all the bleating in the world on here won’t make the blind bit of difference.

Moggy

What was that for Moggy? I see no reason for that comment at all. I was just offering an alternative view. But one can only truly make up their own mind by going to Cosford. Do you consider it ‘bleating’ that I had the temerity to mention the fact that the wheelchair lift was broken on both the occasions I have visited? Is it bleating because I mentioned that I find the current layout of the museum shop to be cramped beyond belief and therefore ensuring any meaningful access is denied to a wheelchair user? The comments I made won’t make the ‘blind bit of difference’, but does that make them any less valid than SADSACK’s comments in support of the NWCE? I think not.

Pete Truman.

Please take the time to visit yourself, even if it turns out you don’t like the NWCE there is much else there that is well worth your time.

JDK.

I’ll try and make up the rest of the half hour here if you don’t mind.

“Unlike most people here, I’ve at least spent a day in a wheel chair to test out the reality of my museum’s alleged accessibility – something the curator never did. Likewise I’ve lifted a bunch of wheelchair users to the first floor of the same museum, using a chair lift in a mediaeval building, which is a lot easier to say than do. Unlike many I’m also very aware of my good luck in being able bodied, and we’ll draw a veil over the yet-to-be-broken AAM ramp dash record. A cheap hit on someone who tries to help, Kev. Thanks.”

Apologies, it was indeed a cheap shot. I know we have spoken before at length re disability access issues and inclusivity. I wonder whether anyone from Cosford has actually gone to the lengths you have? I rather suspect not. I do think it is probably best to draw a veil over the AAM ramp dash. I’m still receiving therapy.

“You are implying I’m ‘looking down’ on you; which is not (and never) the case. I basically asked you to justify an opinion you expressed, and you’ve done so – there’s little I don’t accept, and generally, I reckon your views are certainly as good as mine, so not need to adopt a cloak of humility, real or fake.”

Actually I wasn’t suggesting anything of the sort and certainly not adopting a cloak of humility, merely stating the fact that you have visited a far more diverse cross section of museums than I ever have or will.

One last thing. I’m not suggesting for a second that people shouldn’t go to Cosford. I just hope that if you do you get more out of the NWCE experience than I have. All I’ve done was offer a contrary view to that expressed by the thread starter.

Think that’ll do for now.

Regards,

kev35

I wasn’t aware I was ‘bleating’ but, rather, taking part in what I took to be a debate. My opinions stand and whilst I may not have been part of this forum for long, I have been around long enough in the preservation world to have an opinion. I suspected it may have been an error adding my thoughts. Lesson learned.

Russ,
Those of us who have been around for a similar period know that your practical contribution to the UK preservation scene has been considerable. Your views are as valid as any other and possibly better informed than most as a result of your background, so I for one would welcome your continued input.