Could Some one please explain………

Rob

Please take your drugs you are getting way too excited this evening. 😀

You have had several members of the forum explain to you what is needed for SallyB to take passengers, you have failed to ask the most important question of all yet, do her owners want to take passengers?

The systems of both Taxation and aircraft certification differ greatly between the US and the UK, we are perfectly capable of keeping our own house in order. Your concern is appreciated but not needed.

Thank you

Ok then,

Is that what the C-47 are under then the reason I ask is they where design for one thing to transport during War time Period then it would make sence to point out to the CAA that look these plane are older then are and they where desing for War also what is the difference between them and us.(please keep it civil I do know the differance I would like to hear the CAA reasons)

I’m just lost to understand the CAA over the few years maybe its time for the Warbird Community in the UK to star putting some pressure on your elected MP about have some changes done to allow groups like the Sally-B and other to be able to charge rides for a tax right off. Hey we got it to work here in the States and yes we are alot larger then you guys are but whats it going to hurt to at least try.

Remember all it takes I for one silly SOB to say hey were not going to take this BS anymore and I’m going to try to do something about it.

RER

B-17 Buff! makes a good sattement why can the C-47/DC-3 fly Pasangers and the 17 can’t

Again and for one last time, the only way SallyB will fly passengers is if she has a full transport C of A.

Anyway why are you worried, as far as you are concerned she should be sent back to the USA.

The only way would be to have a full transport category CofA (along with the associated costs)

Still wouldn’t work as you would be a passenger, and trhe aircraft flies under permit. Gift aid is only a way of increasing the amount of money the charity gets from your donation.

Ok,

Wow the CAA really know how to screw up something real good. Next question is their anything that is on the EU books that would allow the Sally-B or any other Warbird to charge for a ride.

Their has to be some loop poll all taxs code are full of them :diablo:

B-17 Buff! makes a good sattement why can the C-47/DC-3 fly Pasangers and the 17 can’t. Just doesn’t make since I’m going to have to read more on the CAA to try to understand it.

RER

Still wouldn’t work as you would be a passenger, and trhe aircraft flies under permit. Gift aid is only a way of increasing the amount of money the charity gets from your donation.

edit: From what I can remember, maybe someone else can confirm, aircraft flying on ‘permit to fly’ can only carry the number of people required for the safe operation of the aircraft. This precludes the carrying of extra ‘passengers’.

How do you define safety requirements? If DC-3’s can carry passengers… an a/c older than the fort, then why not other warbirds? Also, I believe some historic buildings are.. not exempt, but the restrictions are less tough.. think of places such as Hampton Court Palace.. surely not as ‘safe’ as a modern building?! …Anyway back to a/c.. as for sueing?.. thats where a disclosure form comes in. I also think it wouldn’t detract from being a flying memorial.. if anything aid. Allowing people to experience how tough it really was for these young flyers.. This is just my opinion though! …If the yanks can do it.. why can’t we!!

Ok Dodrums,

If I understand what you post in theory you could say offer Sally-B 500 Pounds for a tax Donation in exchange for a flight and you can call it a Gift Aid.

Is that right if so then why not approach it this way then the CAA can’t really say anything right because you offered a Gift Aid in exchange the Sally-B for your donation offer you a ride in the plane.

RER

Flood, This is the point im making… an excemption for these aircraft. Therefore not having to conform to these requirements. As long as the passenger flying on board consents to it?!

Old and historic buildings are not exempt from making sure that the great unwashed don’t die it the event of a fire or somesuch, how would you convince the health and safety or the CAAs transport people that an old bomber – not originally designed to carry passengers – should be allowed to carry people for money whilst not conforming to any real safety requirements?
I think you’ll find that we have to be told what is and is not safe to protect things like owners and insurance companies from things like next of kin with rabid solicitors and a view that a signed indemnity form shouldn’t protect the ‘guilty’ from being made to pay… Maybe.
Do the people at Sally B want to go down this route? Mightn’t it detract from the flying memorial that it is?

Flood

I think the nearest thing would be the uk tax systems ‘gift aid’, which only applies to donations to registered charities. From the inlad revenue web site:

Did you know that by taking some simple steps when giving money to charity you could make your donation go much further?

Use Gift Aid for individuals
If you’re a UK taxpayer give the charity a simple Gift Aid declaration. This will enable the charity to reclaim an amount equivalent to the basic rate tax paid on the amount donated. This means that for every £1 you give to charity, the charity will be able to claim an additional 28p from the Inland Revenue. If the charity to which you are giving does not mention Gift Aid, ask.

Ok Then,

I might be grabing at straws at this point but here goes, Is their anything close to the US 501c3 Not For Profit Groups in the UK or better yet is their anything that might fall under the EU/UNESCO Historical rules amnd laws.

Like I said folks I’m just loking for answer and if these seem stupid question i’m sorry I just can’t fathom the UK Laws.

Surely there has to be something tht the Historical Avaition groups can use to generate funds.

RER

Changing state of registery of an a/c such as her is impractical. It would cause all kinds of problems financially and practically.. interesting about the museum though.. interesting point about the french a/c but i believe they do not offer this either. Their regs are much the same as the CAA’s as far as im aware!

It’s quite feasible for Sally B to move to the U.S register but it would seriously restrict it’s operation in the U.K. A few years ago a large number of American warbirds were operating in the U.K but an examination of the rules actually made it difficult to operate them within the N register requirements and at the same time satisfy the CAA. I am not saying it’s easier to operate in the U.S on the N register but I cannot think of many aircraft operating in the U.S on the CAA register nor wanting to!

Ok All,

How about this then why can’t Sally-B change registery to a N Number then applie for a US 501c3. Or has the CAA say that all N register aircraft have to be change to a CAA number.

I know that at DX the American Airpower Museum is set up as a US 501c3 because when I donated money to it I got a US IRS Tax Statement so its not uncomman in the UK.

I’m not trying to start a flame guys all I’m looking for is way that Sally-B and other aircrfat might be able to do what we do here in the States.

Also how about the French Aircraft do they sell rides?

Cheers
RER

Flood, This is the point im making… an excemption for these aircraft. Therefore not having to conform to these requirements. As long as the passenger flying on board consents to it?!

Crazymainer, this is a really good question.. one i posted in another thread before reading this. As stated, we know why Sally-B and others can’t carry passengers but I would like to know why an excemption can’t be made for some of these very special aircraft, especially those on the brink of extinction or sale such as in the Sally-B’s case (or was a couple of yrs ago)?

It is a litigious society – or could be in the event of an accident and the CAA gets dragged in to explain why they gave an aircraft with a lack of passenger exits an exemption. Would you like to see Sally B as she is, or with illuminous ‘cut here’ stickers over newly cut emergency escape panels and air scoops to supply breathable air guaranteed untainted by exhaust fumes whilst in flight?
Maybe.;)

Flood

Crazymainer, this is a really good question.. one i posted in another thread before reading this. As stated, we know why Sally-B and others can’t carry passengers but I would like to know why an excemption can’t be made for some of these very special aircraft, especially those on the brink of extinction or sale such as in the Sally-B’s case (or was a couple of yrs ago)?

Thanks Guys,

MOTF very interesting reading I will have to go back and read som more latter to fully understand.

RER

Hi Moggy,

So I guess I should refrase the question is their something like the US 501c3 Not for Profit in the UK.

RER

No

There should be.

It wouldn’t help with Sally B though as MotF has just explained

I’m moving

Moggy

Its not a Tax issue but a certification issue. She would need a full transport C of A to be able to take passengers have a look at the CAA Website for more info.

The work required would be prohibitive in terms of cost and not raise enough revenue after the first few years to justify it. Also it would probably take away some of the very essence of the aircraft as a flying memorial.