I have been seeing a lot discussions recently in various places on Fast Attack Craft, and if the RN should adopt them or not, either for defensive roles, or for offensive roles in the littorals.
Personally I am not convinced that FACM have any role in the RN due to their fragility, lack of sea keeping and lack of first class sensors, but I have seen arguments from those who I respect which suggest that I am wrong with respect to the usefulness of FACM. At best I could see something like 4 FACM based on the Roussen(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roussen_Class_FACM), but with an attack sonar and a couple of light torpedoes, being deployed to the Falklands along with HMS Clyde to provide a permanent defensive force for the South Atlantic.
Given that there are a lot of people here who know what they are talking about I thought I would canvas opinions on if the RN could find a role for FACM and what the role could be.
By: Wanshan - 20th December 2010 at 22:48
I don’t think FACs are ideal for operating in the kinds of seas and weather found around the Falklands.
“The weather and climate of the Falklands are similar to those of the Hebrides or Shetland Islands, but with a longer and slightly more severe winter.
The Falklands are situated in the very stormy latitudes of the southern westerly winds or ‘Roaring Forties’ and gales are very frequent, particularly during the winter months.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/country_guides/results.shtml?tt=TT004760
By: obligatory - 20th December 2010 at 22:16
Hard for FAC to beat a group of commandos sitting at a fjord w/hellfire cost effectiveness wise, i also think the commandos has better survivability,
it can’t possibly be worse then FAC fodder anyway.
By: nocutstoRAF - 20th December 2010 at 21:50
RE: Kev 99
I think I may misunderstood the points on Think Defence, I believe the discussion was on ships smaller that FAC. I cannot see them building a monitor, but I could see either a modified LCU Mk10 with the space used for the troops faired over and fitted with NEMO or MLRS, or alternatively a stretched Bay or similar with one or two Mk 8’s mounted of the front for naval gunfire support.
RE: Lindermyer
While I agree with you (and I think the Wildcat is going to excel in this role) I note that recent FAC’s seem to have taller radar masts, and reasonable point defence A2A missiles so I would guess that the learnt the lesson of 1991, still is seems to me that once you get open water a FAC is mincemeat. Plus most FAC seem to lack any sonar, torpedoes or counter-measures to deal with torpedoes which means even out of date SSK would eat them for breakfast in coastal waters.
By: Lindermyer - 20th December 2010 at 20:20
The RN decided that it would rather have Lynx and sea skua than FACs –
Events in 1991 demonstrated that FAC in open water are horribly vulnerable to air attack.
nosing round the FJords and lots of Isles and inlets however they are of more use
By: kev 99 - 20th December 2010 at 19:44
Thanks Swerve,
There have been some discussions on ARRSE, Think Defence and couple of other sites when I have googled the subject suggesting that FAC’s where a good way of cheaply deploying force. The most realistic suggestion was from Think Defence, which if I understood correctly, it was suggested that FAC’s might provide naval fire support during amphibious assault’s. I think the FAC’s they where discussing were a lot smaller than the Roussen’s, which seem to be at the upper limit of a FAC, and I may have confused the idea with large combat boats equipped with NEMO.
However I generally could not see a need for FAC’s, but I assumed it was simply my personal distaste for ships which lack full spectrum capabilities, so I had a long hard think and in the end the only environment I could see them be useful is the Falkland Islands and as you say they would need to be covered by RAF to be useful.
A separate discussion might be what is going to replace HMS Clyde when it goes into refit next year.
Sounds like what you really want is a monitor (or a modern equivilent), outside of a total war scenario I don’t see how the MOD could justify the expense of building any.
I don’t really see anywhere that the RN could usefully employ a proper FAC.
By: nocutstoRAF - 20th December 2010 at 19:02
Thanks Swerve,
There have been some discussions on ARRSE, Think Defence and couple of other sites when I have googled the subject suggesting that FAC’s where a good way of cheaply deploying force. The most realistic suggestion was from Think Defence, which if I understood correctly, it was suggested that FAC’s might provide naval fire support during amphibious assault’s. I think the FAC’s they where discussing were a lot smaller than the Roussen’s, which seem to be at the upper limit of a FAC, and I may have confused the idea with large combat boats equipped with NEMO.
However I generally could not see a need for FAC’s, but I assumed it was simply my personal distaste for ships which lack full spectrum capabilities, so I had a long hard think and in the end the only environment I could see them be useful is the Falkland Islands and as you say they would need to be covered by RAF to be useful.
A separate discussion might be what is going to replace HMS Clyde when it goes into refit next year.
By: swerve - 20th December 2010 at 18:48
I can’t see any use for them in the defence of the UK, & using them in foreign littoral waters would seem a great way to lose them.
As for the Falklands: lots of money for what purpose? 180 crew plus shore support for 4 Roussens, which is a big increase in the garrison, & its cost. As long as the RAF is operating out of MPA they’re unlikely to be needed, & if MPA is lost, their base is probably also lost, & them with it.
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December 20, 2010 at 1:30 pm