Couple of 1930's British Airways questions

1930’s cigarette card I picked up showing the BA Lockheed 10 Electra G-AEPN, but with the reg and lining in red with black outline – inaccurate, or were only the Super Electras painted with the blue reg and trim?

May I suggest that the letters are dark blue with a red outline. I am puzzled as to why they should have a red outline. The card is a hand painted copy of Flight photo 14018S by the way. (see page 383 AJ.Jackson Brit Civ Ac).

John

1930’s cigarette card I picked up showing the BA Lockheed 10 Electra G-AEPN, but with the reg and lining in red with black outline – inaccurate, or were only the Super Electras painted with the blue reg and trim?

A suggestion….as the archive won’t have airframes put the whole thing online (by scanning and photographing) sell the original items for income (if you can bear too!…maybe keep the models!). Subscription membership if the ideal of free access is economically impossible

Graham, definitely sounds interesting and a worthwhile project – i’m going to the Beehive in a week for a tour around, be interesting to see how much of the interior has been converted by the new owners as ‘serviced office space’

See if they will let you into the subway that used to lead from the railway station!

Graham, definitely sounds interesting and a worthwhile project – i’m going to the Beehive in a week for a tour around, be interesting to see how much of the interior has been converted by the new owners as ‘serviced office space’

The concept was – and still is – a CIVIL aviation archive, rather than a military one. That, by definition means all aspects of civil flying (which incidentally, is why we called the symposium G-DASH as in G- geddit?) covering the entire sphere AND timespan.

The public relations people involved with established aviation museums already claim that they cover this sphere adequately – but the sad truth is that they dont. Sure, the Science Museum collects civil material, but in an ad hoc manner, and only then as part of a larger policy – the RAF Museum gets a lot of civil stuff offered to it, and then disposes of it later.

The IWM at both London and Duxford are not at their core interested in anything civil. Yes, DUX are supposed have – or is getting – a Civil Museum – talk to the folks there and while there is a strong knowledge base regarding airframes and their restoration, look deeper and that knowledge – and interest on a wider aspect – is just not there.

Regional and local museums get a lot of material offered them, but have not the space or inclination to do anything with it. I get on average a call a week from local museums who have heard as to what we do requesting information and/or advice.

Now, when I dream, I dream big – it’s always easier to reduce the plan, but a damned sight harder to expand once you are established! The concept was this:-

1 – NO airframes to be collected.

2 – Establish a Trust to which everything collected is deeded to.

3 – The obvious ‘base’ would be the Martello Air Station (popularly called the Beehive) at Gatwick, which is a listed building anyway.

4 – A firm collections policy is laid out, sub-divided into sections
a – Records
Company files, production lists, route information, log books etc
b – Images
Still photographs, movies
c – Ephemera
Uniforms, promotional material etc

5 – Establish a strong educational programme that includes a clearly defined loans and collecting policy.

The key for me is Item 2 – as part of the accession process to the Trust, there would be a rule that states ‘once accepted NO item could be later disposed of unless a better duplicate, replacement item is obtained’. I do NOT want to establish an organisation that at a later stage allows items that it obtained to revert back to private individual ownership. It may sound grandiose, but the idea is to save items for the nation!

It would need strong support from the aviation industry – predominently the airlines, but also the CAA, the Museum’s Association etc etc.

Funding – always a problem, but hey… if the Lottery Heritage Fund can throw millions at a certain tin triangle, why not this?

Civil aviation is all it’s forms has changed the world beyond recognition – most of those who lived through the first phase of development have gone – and most of us here have lived through the second phase – I still see the ‘peak’ as being Concorde – we’ve now gone backwards.

I already have a detailed plan – this is just a brief synopsis. When I think about it, I find it sad as to what will happen to all that I have saved once I am gone.

I’m still trying to get some form of civil aviation archive happening, but am not holding my breath as no-one seems really interested.

Can you please elaborate on this, Graham. Is that to which you refer a proposed commercial civil aviation archive or is it intended to embrace private civil aviation as well? Furthermore what is the timespan envisaged? Would this be the the entire past hundred years or the inter war years and/or the post-war years? I know that, for a majority contributing to this forum, the prevailing view appears to be: “if it ain’t military, then it ain’t worth a ****” (if I can be forgiven for paraphrasing the catchphrase of a certain independent record label of the 1970s) – but surely there are sufficient of us with an interest in the history of civil aviation to make the proposed archive a viable proposition!

Bit of thread drift…there are 6-7 pics of the Comet 4 about to fly its first Transatlantic Service on these pages…Google images search Kauffman October 1958 source:life …will this civil archive be on line?
http://images.google.com/images?q=kauffman+october+1958&q=source%3Alife

I’m currently researching pre-WW2 civil aviation more and more so any moves to more information on it being available would be welcomed by me

A while back myself and David Lee organised a symposium at Cosford under the auspices of BAPC with the title G-DASH… Lots turned up, lots offered wonderful words but absolutely half of foxtrot alpha actually happened!

I’m not sure if I live in a civil aviation archive, or that the archive had taken over our home! There’s LOTS of pre-war civil stuff here, LOADS of Dan-Air, Air Europe and Autair/Court Line – and don’t even start me off about Comet material – someone once DEMANDED that I gave them an original BOAC invite to the first Comet service – they saw it as ‘more relevant that it was in THEIR collection than mine’…

The same thing incidentally happened to the 40-or-so Brabazon 8×10 originals we have here – a ‘certain collection’ DEMANDED that I gave them to them!

And people wonder why I got cynical!

That aside, I’m always happy to help out and share info/pics etc… AS LONG AS PEOPLE BEHAVE IN THE RIGHT MANNER TOWARDS US HERE!

Saw this night pic of a BA Lockheed 10 Electra at the Science Museum, tucked away inbetween the engines in the Flight Gallery, anyone seen it before and know which archive(s) it’s in?

I have a copy of it, I believe, like Graham, that is a (1930s) BA publicity shot. The copy I have is reasonable quality.

I agree with the photographer, the spinning props look great! I visited the Heathrow archives last week to research several 1930’s crashes, as well as to start research into the de Havilland Comet crashes, and will be back before too long – splended archive, even the museum was well worth the early start and long journey down.

I’m currently researching pre-WW2 civil aviation more and more so any moves to more information on it being available would be welcomed by me

There’s a lot of material in the BA Museum at Heathrow. The late John Stroud had lots of (original) British Airways material – and many other airlines – until after his passing and the collection was broken up and sold to the Smithsonian I gather. I managed to get some of it, and we found ways to incorporate a number of the images into our new Airfield Focus Special on Gatwick. I also managed to get some of his books that – although badly battered and ‘abused’ – are full of additions and revisions if ever he did a second edition!

That night shot looks similar to a whole series of pictures that were taken for (the original) British Airways – I have a number of DH86 Express and other aircraft in more or less the same position – the photographer seemed to like the effect of props spinning in the searchlights!

I’m still trying to get some form of civil aviation archive happening, but am not holding my breath as no-one seems really interested.

Brilliant, thanks for the link longshot, very useful – as well as to John and Martin for the information, i’ll have to go down to Grosvenor Gardens with my camera next week. Saw this night pic of a BA Lockheed 10 Electra at the Science Museum, tucked away inbetween the engines in the Flight Gallery, anyone seen it before and know which archive(s) it’s in? Also attached a BA advert from a 1937 edition of Flight

Full size link http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk256/RobLangham/baad.jpg

BA Ltd L14 markings colour

Only contemporary colour photo I’ve seen is in the Jaeger file see this page

http://images.google.com/images?q=chamberlain+munich&q=source%3Alife

The ‘lightning’ stripe at least is blue-black
…the red rudder top visible is on a Hungarian Savoia Marchetti

Couple of quick questions regarding the first British Airways;

1) What colour was the registration and lining on the side of the Electra’s and Super Electra’s? I’ve seen a couple of modern colour photos showing it dark red with a black outline, but the REG Davies book has a colour drawing of an Electra with a blue lining and registration

2) Where was ‘Terminal House’ at Victoria, and does it still exist?

Cheers, Rob

Terminal House, 52 Grosvenor Gardens, London SW1 0AU,
built 1927, http://www.flickr.com/photos/ddtmmm/3827200334/

I’m sure Blue registrations and trim.

John