Crash site relics – recover or leave in situ?

Some interesting comments and ideas are being aired on this thread, and thanks to all those who have contributed so far.

Responding to the comment in post no11 regarding road deaths, during my research into 231 OCU accidents at RAF Bassingbourn I came across a number of deaths of servicemen (not just from 231) involved in road accidents, from wartime right up until the RAF moved out in 1969. So many in fact that I lost count. A large percentage of them happened to be around the main entrance to the base or along the main Royston road.
My point being that to place a roadside memorial at the spot of each accident would be impractical and nigh on impossible, as in locating the exact spot where the accident took place.

But having said that I am in agreement that those killed in such a way are just as important to remember as those killed in flying duties, in my opinion!

Rob

Agreed. To be frank, those who might benefit from a little historical education rarely go hillwalking or diving, and would not know or care what they were looking at if they did. The rest of us know enough to appreciate the nature of the sacrifice. The only real value of the decaying metal is ‘historicotechnical’.. my word 🙂 hence my idea above.

Further to it, it struck me last night that the facilty just needs a simple 3d scanner to be deployed for all acquisitions on the way in for this to become a major international resource for the long term.

Can someone please tell me where in the UK I can find an insitu memorial marker to service member/s killed in a road vehicle accident? Anyone? So why does the death of a service member in an aircraft make it more worthy of rememberance?

As my fourpence worth or whatever the phrase is, if there was a national repository, NOT a museum, that all recovered parts, whether considered at the time of recovery ‘important’ or not, could go to by default, then there would be a controlled environment where all parts are catalogued and inventoried, made available to researchers and restorers, and not scrapped or sold on a well known auction site with made-up histories.

So, one for someone like Wessex Archaeology, perhaps? What do people think?

Locate, survey,identify. Liase with landowners,assess historic value. Explain to landowner that parts left in the so called wild will eventually be removed by unknown people and that laws will be broken and parts never seen in public. An alternative is a proper recovery of parts with an agreed aim of use for restoration and display and or secure storage pending use.
It is wishful thinking to consider the wreckage as a memorial on its own.

Take the P-38 that was just recovered in Guadalcanal. JPAC recovered the remains of Maj. Mathis for a proper burial.

If I understand correctly, the local government officials wanted the substantial remains of the P-38 scrapped immediately, and this was in 2013. 😡

A local stepped in and filed the paperwork for the wreck, so it will at least survive though I would rather see it fully restored to static or flying condition. But it illustrates that these wrecks will likely not survive for much longer and will be forgotten or scrapped.
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Obviously there is no one answer.
Depends on AC type and rarity, condition and history…location and any special historic value.

Even “bona fide” museums and well meaning aviation fans share some blame if they take the “good parts” and leave a pile of twisted scrap on location.

On the other hand, anything important will have been removed at the
time of the accident, or very soon after.( In the majority of cases).

What is left is scrap metal. As long as the site is recorded, do we really
need to get precious about people picking bits up ?

Locate, survey,identify. Liase with landowners,assess historic value. Explain to landowner that parts left in the so called wild will eventually be removed by unknown people and that laws will be broken and parts never seen in public. An alternative is a proper recovery of parts with an agreed aim of use for restoration and display and or secure storage pending use.
It is wishful thinking to consider the wreckage as a memorial on its own.

Happy with stuff going to bona fide museums; not so much when it ends up at aero jumbles or on eBay.

This is an archaeological issue really, and not just one that starts and ends with aircraft. My only real issue is with those that remove aircraft parts purely for their own enjoyment. Many posts on the Peak Wreck Hunters blog indicate that bigger and more noteworthy parts have vanished from even fairly remote crash sites. These guys will probably class themselves as historic aircraft enthusiasts but clearly don’t have an issue with pilfering materials from sites, thus ruining it for the rest of us.

Everything has a fine balance. I am sure there is a controlling empire, I am just not sure how effective they are. Tangmere1940 where are you, I bow to your wisdom!

In this day and age of act now & repent at leisure; scoop up as much as you can to preserve patterns for future projects. But! you only need one complete airframe to convert into CAD accurate drawings. Unfortunately there are many worthy & well-meaning persons duplicating this effort.

I know of some recent crash sites (30+ years) that the bereaved families believe should be treated as similar to war graves. It is disheartening to go back to these sites and find them cleansed!

I believe in the first instance (as I think is usually the case) the bereaved should be consulted. From then on it should be carefully analysed before anything if at all is lifted from the site.

This is my own humble opinion and would welcome an open debate.

In another 50 years time, what will remain of anything left in situ?

There will be some rusty bits of metal mixed with some pitted aluminum, and perhaps a barely legible marker that says it was once an airplane from a war that ended 100 years ago.

Two things to consider for aircraft left in situ anywhere in the world now. They will eventually corrode into nothing or be picked apart, and that pace is accelerating today. Secondly future generations are not going to remember WW2 or care as much. The younger generation in my klan have different priorities and I think that applies to many others. I would say to preserve what can be preserved now. Otherwise, some day a wreck will just be some archaeological dig that will only be an academic exercise.