Crashed Ju-52 in Switzerland 4,08,2018(MERGED)

That must have been terrifying -poor souls

Such a tragedy. It’s very surprising that it didn’t catch fire. Good job it didn’t as that would have destroyed a whole load of forensic evidence.

Anon.

A Swiss-German newspaper has released a report. The impact could not have been worse.

https://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/exklusiv-augenzeugin-filmt-crash-am-piz-segnas-hier-stuerzt-die-ju-52-ab-id15044750.html?fbclid=IwAR1uNZeTfkDYkTgj3wr1cDbbFYkSq4cbkW0RxXnGzyfOzFkElWEkg872cKY

Short finals, being described as such, yes I can see how it is a mountain feature. One of those coincidental images.

There is no smoke trail. That is a geographic feature on the mountain behind. There has been exhaustive discussion and dissection of such “issues” on other websites.

While being aft of CG is possible, I find it highly suspect the crew would allow such a mistake to happen.
And what about that smoke trail behind the Ju in the picture?

Any updates on the investigation or theories? (I know, takes a long time).

PS, tragic year for vintage passenger aircraft flights:
Convair 220 crash in S.Africa, 2 dead
C-47 Bluebonnet Bell crash on takeoff in Texas, 2 severely burned.
Dragon Rapid crash in Canada

Traditionally, ‘coffin corner’ is used to denote the area of the flight envelope where conditions are such that the stall speed and maximum airspeed are very close together, leaving only a small range of airspeed to operate in. Normally this will be at higher altitudes. In this case, going by what has been published about the accident, the aircraft appeared to be operating close to its stall speed and inadvertently crossed that line.

Operating at ‘coffin corner’? Hot, high, turbulence……..
Keith

With respect, I think that it suggests (to me) an inadvertent spin whilst turning in a constricted possibly turbulent airspace. Just my interpretation on the scenario and the report. No blame, No names, no pack-drill. (RAF jargon)

John

Just in case you want to see the report (which says what Propstrike reports):

https://www.sust.admin.ch/inhalte/AV-berichte/HB-HOT.pdf

Reveals very little, and nothing on what caused it.

STSB: ” Junkers Ju-52 entered a spin while making a turn in a mountain basin”

”The Swiss Transportation Safety Investigation Board (STSB) issued a preliminary report on the August 4 accident involving a historic Junkers Ju-52/3m accident.

The Ju-52 aircraft, operated by Ju-Air, crashed into the western slope of Piz Segnas, Switzerland, at an elevation of 2540 m. All 17 passengers and three crew members were killed.

The brief report stated that the aircraft flew on a northeasterly course into the basin southwest of Piz Segnas. Towards the north end of the basin, it began a left turn, which developed into a descending spiral trajectory. A short time later, the aircraft collided with the ground almost vertically and at high speed.”

https://news.aviation-safety.net/2018/08/21/stsb-junkers-ju-52-entered-a-spin-while-making-a-turn-in-a-mountain-basin/

Aeronut. Thank you for the reply. A jammed aft load , doesn’t bear thinking about.

John

I can’t speak for the Ju (or other aircraft of that vintage) but for airdrop from Hercs we had forward and aft extensions to the cg envelope. The movement of troops or loads during airdrop would take the aircraft into those areas and the aircraft would remain controllable just so long as it was flying, just don’t think about landing with the cg in the extensions. There were of course times when the limits were busted, heavy airdrop would take the cg well out of range as a 20000lb platform exited at speed. Indeed I’ve seen calculation that showed the drop of a heavy stressed platform would take the centre of lift to a point aft of the trailing edge – for a fraction of a second. The fear of a jammed load was real and for that reason we wrote into the A400M specification the requirement for the aircraft to tolerate a 12000 lb load jammed on the ramp.

Re the post 30 above, I must admit that when I saw the very sad photo of the wreckage my first thought was, “was there a C of G problem'”. I am not trying to do an armchair guess the cause, but my following thought was how much did the c of g change when the Ju.52 was used in the para troop role with troops rapidly exiting from the aft door. I presume that the ‘in use’ C of G limits must have altered in the current Ju’s with the more comfortable and heavier modern passenger requirements.

Very sad that a wonderful opportunity should cost those poor folk so dearly. RIP.

John

Ju-Air flight operations resuming, with additional safety altitude and passengers remaining strapped in their seats.
https://news.aviation-safety.net/2018/08/16/ju-air-will-resume-ju-52-flights-on-17-august-with-government-mandated-safety-measures-in-place/

To make searching easier in future, I’ll mention that the accident aircraft was HB-HOT.

When I’ve been on DC-3 or Catalina flights the cabin crew have limited passenger movements (a limit of 4 in the Catalina blister area for instance), suggests that W&B issues haven’t been ruled out.

Horrible tragedy!

Even worse when it was a sightseeing flight along a long established safe flight, everyone relaxed and enjoying, then tragedy. 🙁 🙁 🙁

Hi All,
I agree with Canopener Al, All I can add is the fatalities are what should be concentrated on and not forgetting the family and friends directly linked to
those who perished in this most tragic of all unexpected circumstances, RIP All.

The above does not appear to be some medias response to the tragedy though with The Sun who went with the article header below.

(20 die as NAZI tour plane hits mountain crash)

Why on earth would the author of the article deem it necessary to include and emphasise word NAZI in capitals isn’t that just attention grabbing ? I mean
it’s bad enough there having been a number fatalities in this tragic accident, very sad really that some individual should (What looks like to me) self notoriety IMPO.

Geoff.

SALT IN THE WOUND! 😡
Hurts memory of family and puts a horrible, erroneous light on the aircraft!
Also Professor Hugo Junkers was wanted nothing to do with the Nazi party!

Bad to worse. 🙁

The Scum ,as good as the Faily Dail –R I P to all those who have lost their lives and to those affected by it.

Terribly sad

Hi All,
I agree with Canopener Al, All I can add is the fatalities are what should be concentrated on and not forgetting the family and friends directly linked to
those who perished in this most tragic of all unexpected circumstances, RIP All.

The above does not appear to be some medias response to the tragedy though with The Sun who went with the article header below.

(20 die as NAZI tour plane hits mountain crash)

Why on earth would the author of the article deem it necessary to include and emphasise the word NAZI in capitals isn’t that just attention grabbing ? I
mean it’s bad enough there having been a number fatalities in this tragic accident, very sad really that some individual should (What looks like to me) self notoriety IMPO.

Geoff.