Crewing the back seat of Buccaneer ZU-BCR

Plazz,

Archer has PM’d me and shed some much needed light on things, thank you all involved for seeing my point of view and putting across another side of the story, the upshot is you have had an experience that you will never forget and a very good one for all involved.

Lets hope that this heralds a new chapter in the safe and succesful operation of this cold war icon.

Regards,

John.

John,

Many thanks for your kind consideration. I am mindful that this is an open forum and that everyone on here has the right to their own views and opinions. That in part is what makes this forum as successful and absorbing as it is!!

Regards, Plazz

Great photo – a bit surreal actually, having been used to wearing a goon suit and LSJ when overwater. Big fat sponson tanks too. See any wildlife?

Yes, the Puma made a great platform for wildlife photography…:D:D

Plazz,

Archer has PM’d me and shed some much needed light on things, thank you all involved for seeing my point of view and putting across another side of the story, the upshot is you have had an experience that you will never forget and a very good one for all involved.

Lets hope that this heralds a new chapter in the safe and succesful operation of this cold war icon.

Regards,

John.

Great photo – a bit surreal actually, having been used to wearing a goon suit and LSJ when overwater. Big fat sponson tanks too. See any wildlife?

Interesting Plazz, thanks for that. I currently rearcrew the Bell 412. Controls: Just the radio box and cabin doors, although a GPMG & flares have added a little variety on other types. My main focus on this type is to teach new crewmen how to work with a pilot, by using confined areas, underslung loads etc And I think it’s the best office in the world 🙂

That’s an awesome career you’ve got there!! Not quite the same but whilst in SA I had my first every helicopter trip (Puma) with the door open! Normal for you but an on the edge new experience for me!! I’m more used to flying in Jet Rangers with the doors firmly shut!

Cheers, Plazz

The only rear seat controls are the radio and transponder settings. Challenge and response checks were frequent with regards to fuel state etc. and when required for aileron droop/tail plane flap and BLC positions/values.

If you don’t mind me asking, what aircraft do you crew?

Regards, Plazz

Interesting Plazz, thanks for that. I currently rearcrew the Bell 412. Controls: Just the radio box and cabin doors, although a GPMG & flares have added a little variety on other types. My main focus on this type is to teach new crewmen how to work with a pilot, by using confined areas, underslung loads etc And I think it’s the best office in the world 🙂

Hi Plazz,

I’ll respond to FMK.6JOHN via PM, that way we can keep the thread on topic.

I’d be somewhat naive if I thought I could start this thread if without the Lightning accident getting mentioned somewhere within its posts.

It’s not for me to comment on the crash itself. From my own perspective something bad happened, lessons were learned and things improved. Bad things happen every day, I know as I was in an awful car accident a few years ago. Not caused by me but it didn’t stop me getting back behind the wheel when I was finally able to. Not quite the same analogy perhaps but I guess what I’m saying is that I cannot put my life on hold and live in a padded room just because something somewhere in the world went wrong. If that was the case I would never have got in the car to go to the airport let along climb on board the 747 that took me to Cape Town.

To me the Buccaneer flight was never a gamble. It was a personal choice and one I will always look back fondly upon.

Thanks to all for keeping this thread positive!

Regards, Plazz

Would have loved that experience! Lucky you!

For the sake of authorisation, presumably the aircraft was flown solo?

Yes the aircraft was flown solo but this was down to ZU-BCR being the only Buccaneer currently fully serviceable rather than for the sake of authorisation.

Regards, Plazz

I asked because I work as part of a 3 man crew myself. I thought the Bucc was quite a complex aircraft and was interested in what the rear-seater could do physically, that the front seater couldn’t. Did you have to operate any rear-seat only controls, and did you assist CRM by use of challenge and response checks with the front?

The only rear seat controls are the radio and transponder settings. Challenge and response checks were frequent with regards to fuel state etc. and when required for aileron droop/tail plane flap and BLC positions/values.

If you don’t mind me asking, what aircraft do you crew?

Regards, Plazz

Wow, what an amazing experience :cool:. Who is the pilot in the photos?

Rob

The pilot in the photo is Ian Pringle.

Regards, Plazz

Great photos and what a wonderful experience!

As for Thunder City, there is a big change as they don’t operate commercially anymore. The Lightning report wasn’t very kind to them and because of that they don’t sell rides anymore. The Bucc is now operated as a private aircraft.

Lets not degenorate this thread into a slanging match but there is some fundamentals about yours statement that just does not sit well with me, especially after having read the report.

Firstly the report was not kind to them for good reason, the AAIB are not into ‘witch hunts’ or ‘disproportionate blame’ they deal only in cold hard facts and courses of action to maximise prevention of repeat occurences.

The report was as kind to them as Thunder City made it for themselves in that they are the ones responsible for their actions, simple as.

The private aircraft/commercial argument holds no weight, should the aircraft be operated any differently whether they have paying public aboard or not?, lets not forget that at the time of the accident the aircraft was essentially being operated as a ‘private aircraft’.

And these chaps that got a back seat ride (paying or not) are putting the lives in the hands of people who have been certified to fly an aircraft a safetly as possible, maintained correctly and with fully functioning safety equipment, something which they failed to do resulting, sadly, with the loss of life.

It’s possibly one of the biggest gambles to take, have the ride of a lifetime in your dream aircraft but under the shadow of a very tragic, avoidable accident, close call I say but lets not dissolve the AAIB report and defend Thunder City so quickly.

Regards,

John.

Great photos and what a wonderful experience!

As for Thunder City, there is a big change as they don’t operate commercially anymore. The Lightning report wasn’t very kind to them and because of that they don’t sell rides anymore. The Bucc is now operated as a private aircraft.

Nice.
But unbelievable that they still are allowed to operate after the report of their Lightning crash…..

Things are changed so it seems. Sad that a crash was neccesary to get them to that point.

Great photos Frances, can’t wait for the videos.

Would have loved that experience! Lucky you!

For the sake of authorisation, presumably the aircraft was flown solo?

I asked because I work as part of a 3 man crew myself. I thought the Bucc was quite a complex aircraft and was interested in what the rear-seater could do physically, that the front seater couldn’t. Did you have to operate any rear-seat only controls, and did you assist CRM by use of challenge and response checks with the front?

Wow, what an amazing experience :cool:. Who is the pilot in the photos?

Rob

What crew duties were you tasked with Plazz?

All the duties that you would expect from a two crew aircraft!
e.g. Everything on the FRC (Flight Reference Cards):
Pre-start checks, Post start checks, Emergency drills and Escape system checks etc.

During the sortie such things as radio frequencies, transponder settings, oxygen flow rates, aileron droop/tail plane operation and BLC system checks etc.

Fortunately, having spent the last ten years restoring and operating our own Buccaneers (from both the back and the front seats) the whole operation during the sortie was quite normal and intuitive.

Just curious though, why do you ask?

What crew duties were you tasked with Plazz?