Crowdline distance ?

Excellent

Thanks very much for the info Glenn, just what I was looking for.

Cheers
Mick

RE: Crowdline distance ?

Correct distances are:

15mtrs from any taxiway (this is a minimum and does depend on what type of a/c are using it)

50mtrs from the edge of any runway (again a minimum, and 100mtrs is the norm).

For displays, aircraft are permitted to display at varying distances away from the crowdline depending on their maximium indicated airspeeed, therefore: 230mtrs for fast jet a/c, going down to 50mtrs for anything less than 100knots.

Hence why you see aircraft taking off from a runway which seems fairly close and then their display seems further away.

RE: Crowdline distance ?

It certainly does vary from show to show. I think the criteria are based on the type of aircraft that are displaying. If you have high energy jets, they obviously need much more room to manoeuvre and are flying higher than the WWI aircraft you see at Old Warden. Also the fire cover and rescue services available must limit what can be done in some cases.

I believe that Old Warden has special dispensation from the CAA to fly as close as 40 yards from the crowdline, based on the gentle sort of display flying that is done there with relatively small and light aircraft which don’t all have Permits to Fly that allow aerobatics anyway. When the Kingcobra crashed at Biggin last year I would reckon it was over 400 metres from the crowdline – from measuring the CAA airfield plate – though it looked closer.

The main thing is that any display must not fly over the crowd. Hence the greater distance away for jets, especially at Farnborough where you’ve got very large jets indeed. Each pilot has an individual display clearance down to a particular height – which can be as low as 50 feet – and the routine is initially vetted by a CAA inspector before it can be flown. If, during the display s/he goes outside this envelope they can be told to stop and land immediately (the “red card”) – which does happen.

Duxford had to get permission from Rod Dean, the CAA supremo, to fly the “Big Wing” over the crowd at the end of the BoB display. You certainly can’t just do what you like and hope for the best. This close regulation means that we can continue to have the safe and impressive displays which are no longer allowed in many countries. Long may it continue!

RE: Crowdline distance ?

That was the IAT at Cottesmoore.

There was some lunatic policy that would have stopped planes taxying past the crowd at Duxford. I personally enjoy the airframes taxing past at Mildenhall, and east Kirkby would have problems under such lunacy.

If everyone had this “we shouldnt fly planes becuase they might crash” mentality, we would never have built any in the first place, neither would we have gone to the moon, explored the world etc. I’m sure Peter Twiss said “I’m not flying that thing, what if it crashed”

RE: Crowdline distance ?

European airshow crowd safety seems to be one big oxymoron to me. Which airshow was it last season where a B-1 lined up to take off and 50 or 60 mensa candidates stood at the end of the runway to take pictures?

RE: Crowdline distance ?

>And is there a given distance that the crowd has to be from
>the runway, some shows I’ve been to were awfully close,
>seemingly,ad it didn’t appear to me that there would be much
>room for manoeuvre if a fast aircraft had a tyre-busrt and
>swung off the runway ?
>
>>Mick

Mick,

I would say the acid test is – how many spectators have been killed at UK airshows?

I know of none since Farnborough in the 1950s, possibly before the current legislation existed.

Since then we have had numerous tragic airshow accidents, but the paying public has been unscathed. It seems to me the distances must be about right, or erring on the conservative side surely?

Moggy

RE: Crowdline distance ?

I’m not sure that there is a set distance because it seems to vary from show to show. Perhaps it is determined by the show content, if you take two extremes,RIAT and Old Warden,the distance is vastly different. Maybe organisers have to put forward the crowd layout as well as the display routines to the CAA for approval and a decision is made with all of the varaibles in the equasion.Whatever the policy is ,its done for our well being.

RE: Crowdline distance ?

Hi

try looking on the Red Arrow website there might be somthing in there about crowd safety. I think I remember seeing it on tv and I think the distance from a flight line had to be 200 metres but I might be wrong. I am totally unsure of the distance from a runway but at an airshow in Scotland you are lucky if you can see the aircraft take off.

The runway is a typical A style runway where the crowd are on one part of the A and the aircraft land on another part.

regards Merlin