I am a pensioner and admit I am not on the breadline neither am I well off. If this happens how many will die of hypothermia or malnutrition or end up in hospital blocking beds in an already overloaded NHS?
Taxpayers’ Alliance: Cut pensioner benefits ‘immediately’
By Brian Wheeler
Political reporter BBC
2 hours ago
From the section UK Politics
Taxpayers’ Alliance meeting
Alex Wild, from the Taxpayers’ Alliance, said he made “practical points”
Ministers should waste no time to make unpopular cuts to pensioner benefits, a think tank director has said.
Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might “not be around” at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers’ Alliance.
And others would forget which party had done it, he added.
At the group’s meeting at the Conservative conference in Manchester, former defence secretary Liam Fox said spending cuts must be “for keeps”.
Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.
The cuts should be made “as soon as possible after an election for two reasons”, said Mr Wild.
“The first of which will sound a little bit morbid – some of the people… won’t be around to vote against you in the next election. So that’s just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then.”
He added: “If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, ‘Oh I can’t remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I’m not quite sure.’
“So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government.”
‘Day of reckoning’
Mr Fox told the meeting that the government had to act now to make further cuts to pensioner benefits and welfare.
He said “we can never go back” to the “historically high” levels of public spending seen in recent years and the government’s public spending cuts must be “for keeps”.
“This is the time to fix the roof” he said.
“We have a broken opposition. We have just won a general election and we need now to take the tough decisions we believe are right.”
Now that Labour was not such a “great threat”, this was a “great opportunity for us to do some of the more difficult things, however unpalatable they will be in the short term are what we need to do for the country”, said the right-wing backbencher.
He added: “We need to do what we all know deep in our hearts to be right.”
Liam Fox
Now read this about this clown who is also a Doctor.
Tory MP Liam Fox claims 3p on expenses for 100-metre car journey
Former defence secretary made journey within North Somerset constituency last year
Liam Fox
Liam Fox, who made another 15 claims under £1 for car travel in 2012-13.
Sunday 6 October 2013 15.28 BST Last modified on Friday 20 June 2014 11.21 BST
The former defence secretary Liam Fox successfully claimed 3p of taxpayers’ cash for a car journey of fewer than 100 metres, expenses documents show.
The Conservative MP made the claim after travelling 0.06 miles, or approximately 96.5 metres, within his North Somerset constituency from a concrete firm to a constituency surgery in Yatton in October 2012. The Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (Ipsa) notes the claim was paid last December.
Fox also had another 15 claims of under £1 for car travel approved in 2012-13.
These included 24p for a 0.54-mile journey from a constituency surgery to a school competition in Clevedon and 44p for a 0.98-mile journey from a meet-your-MP event at Winford Manor to Winford school. MPs can claim 45p a mile.
Ipsa paperwork shows Fox claimed £3,866.31 in travel expenses, which include rail fares, in 2012-13.
Fox, who worked as a GP before becoming an MP, told the Sunday People: “I don’t do my expenses. My office does them. But they are all done according to the rules for travel distances.”
The Tory was last year ordered to repay £3,000 of expenses for allowing his friend Adam Werritty to live rent-free at his taxpayer-funded second home for a year.
Fox, who resigned in October 2011 over his relationship with Werritty, was also criticised for allowing their Atlantic Bridge thinktank to be run from his parliamentary offices.
If that goes through and pensioners desert nice Mr Cameron or his successor that would be over 10 million votes down the pan for the Tories!
By: Lincoln 7 - 21st October 2015 at 01:31
How do you fit a belly button to a Typhoon?
Cotton and a sewing needle?……………………..:D
Jim
Lincoln .7
By: Moggy C - 20th October 2015 at 18:16
How do you fit a belly button to a Typhoon?
By: 1batfastard - 19th October 2015 at 08:41
Hi All,
Sorry for being a late comer to the thread but being as you mentioned the Falklands Campaign did anybody ever come across this :- http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/603285/Plane-crazy-UK-plan-sell-Argentina-bombers
As far as the F-35 goes IMHO biggest white Elephant ever, we should have either gone with a navelised Typhoon or developed the Sea Harrier/Harrier fleet further. Yes I know all the arguments with my offering but at least we would be able to put aircraft on the new carriers that we have had built or a full compliment on one wile the other is mothballed, not only that we keep the work in the UK for the main part or had European partners as the all singing and dancing F-35 has proved to me more like a postponed show….:confused:
Geoff.
Geoff.
By: waco - 19th October 2015 at 01:20
The F35 is a basket case. Questions still remain if it will ever see service.
The most expensive single weapons system in history and after all these years they still cannot get to operate properly.
Yep…..Margaret would have loved it !
They way costs continue to spiral for the aircraft that does’nt work…..quite frankly we might only be able to buy and operate
so few it will become farcical.
Licensed built in the UK fA-18’s would have done nicely.
Nice try CD……..Made me smile !
By: Creaking Door - 19th October 2015 at 00:49
I think we should have gone for cat and trap on the carriers with f-18’s.
Neatly destroying any British involvement in our future combat aircraft; BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce will just have to lay-off all those surplus designers and assembly staff and close the factories…
…what did you say earlier…..when they’re gone they never come back!
Seems it isn’t only ‘Thatcher’ who is intent on ‘destroying our industry’! 😉
By: Creaking Door - 19th October 2015 at 00:43
Perhaps we are entering the realms of a circular exchange now.
Undoubtedly. 🙂
By: Creaking Door - 19th October 2015 at 00:38
You are right, I was not a fan of her, although not as one sided either way as some on here. I don’t believe her legacy was as positive many here appear to believe, there were many things she instigated that were mistakes. Don’t forget how unpopular she was in the country 1982 before the Falklands conflict…
Would any leader have been popular in 1982 after taking over in 1979?
I think we can all agree that the United Kingdom was in one hell of a mess in 1979; even if not ‘absolutely’ at least as far as the electorate were concerned (and that is what matters after all)! So is it likely that any Prime Minister, trying to sort-out the mess, by whatever method, is going to be popular? If a Labour Prime Minister had been elected in 1979 would that leader be any more ‘popular’?
To my mind, trying to rebuild an economy, by whatever method, will inevitably make a leader unpopular.
Did Margaret Thatcher make mistakes? Of course she did. Was she unpopular? Yes. But it doesn’t follow that an alternative leader wouldn’t have made any mistakes and would have been popular too, does it?
By: waco - 19th October 2015 at 00:10
CD
I see your point…..BUT…..I do not think Argentina would have contemplated any attack what ever their domestic situation if they knew
the “Empire” would strike back. No carriers, no capability.
Its my opinion that by signalling that the UK carrier fleet was being withdrawn/sold gave them the opportunity. last card or no last card.
Perhaps we are entering the realms of a circular exchange now.
I take your point re the Harrier but we are 30 + years on. I think we should have gone for cat and trap on the carriers with f-18’s.
By: Creaking Door - 19th October 2015 at 00:07
Still cannot believe we are going to put a single engined aircraft on our new carriers…
The Harrier was single-engined and they flew some of them all the way from Ascension Island to the deck of HMS Hermes, on-station in the South Atlantic, off the Falklands!
By: Creaking Door - 19th October 2015 at 00:01
They attacked when they did because they felt that Britain by its actions (Edndurance etc) would not defend the Islands…
The Junta intended to invade to deflect attention from the failure of their administration; they planned to invade when they knew Britain couldn’t re-take the Islands (they were not really ‘defended’) during the South Atlantic winter, and at a time when HMS Endurance would be in re-fit in the United Kingdom, and after the Royal Navy had been reduced in strength by defence cuts…
…they were forced to invade when they did by the worsening situation in Argentina.
The Junta were forced to invade with HMS Endurance on-station, before the winter set-in and before the Royal Navy defence cuts; these factors show how desperate the situation had become (and demonstrate how false is the claim that these factors ’caused’ the invasion).
I will concede that the Junta may (may!) have been influenced as to the willingness of Britain to attempt to re-take the Islands but if they could have waited the few weeks they needed to wait they would have done so. They were forced to attack when they did because they had run out of options; attacking the Falklands was the last card the Junta had to play and they couldn’t even choose when to play it!
By: waco - 18th October 2015 at 23:03
They attacked when they did because they felt that Britain by its actions (Edndurance etc ) would not defend the Islands.
The First Sea Lord offered up the task force since his fleet was about to be decimated by Conservative defence cuts.
The resultant task force saved his navy…for a few years anyway.
I don’t believe Britain “cheated”. The decision to sink the Belgrano was correct.
I was surprised they didn’t take out the carrier by submarine when she put to sea.
Loved Woodwards two books on the subject !
Still cannot believe we are going to put a single engined aircraft on our new carriers…if indeed we ever get them !
By: Creaking Door - 18th October 2015 at 22:53
…try reading a couple of half decent books on the subject!
I have; and I know all about Operation Journeyman too…
…but it does not change the fact that the Argentine Junta was forced to invade the Falklands while HMS Endurance, HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible were still in service (although due for imminent disposal)!
You simply cannot argue that the invasion was caused by forces that weren’t there…..when they were there!!?!
The fact that the Argentine invasion of the Falklands was brought forward probably would have prevented an operation similar to Journeyman; it takes time for the surface ships to get to the Falklands and the ‘invisible’ nuclear submarine is no threat without them.
Anyway, most of these criticisms are politically motivated; faced with the Conservative Party riding-high on a wave of popularity following the liberation of the Falklands (and being utterly unable to criticise the British Forces, the Falkland Islanders and seeing no merit in criticising the Argentine Junta) the political opponents of the government were left with little choice but to blame the Conservatives for causing the conflict in the first place…
…or that somehow Britain had ‘cheated’ and fought unfairly (ARA General Belgrano sinking)!
Of course, had it not been a Conservative government in power in 1982, we are all sure that no defence cuts would have been made (or the right cuts made) and the invasion would have been easily prevented by a little sabre-rattling and the ruthless military dictatorship that was the Argentine Junta would have yielded to the wishes of the Argentine people, resigned, and free and fair elections would have taken place!
By: waco - 18th October 2015 at 22:18
If its Nazi sympathisers you want…try the Duke and Duchess of Windsor.
good old Saxe-Coburgs eh ?
By: waco - 18th October 2015 at 22:09
Just the facts CD….The Conservative foreign secretary in 1940 Lord Halifax , who was trying to succeed Chamberlain as PM. Along with others on that side of the house. Wanted to sue for peace with Hitler.
Not a huge fan of WSC but by defeating Halifax and getting control he saved the countries bacon….and probably that of the free world.
I think you did ask about Poland in an earlier thread ? and old Sunny Jim !
By: waco - 18th October 2015 at 22:03
…one more thing…HMS Phoebe was the main Leander used in the BBC series Warship. Series one is now available on DVD with series 2 out shortly.
Its a great watch, especially for any fish heads out there !!!!
By: Creaking Door - 18th October 2015 at 21:58
Oh and by the way….Lord Halifax (Conservative foreign secretary 1938-1940) wanted to sue for peace with the Germans following the attacks on Poland and subsequently France. Along with other members of the Conservative party. Had he gained control of the Government which he nearly did the third Reich would have been alive and well even now.
Interesting also to read comments attributed to him regarding Thatcher knighting Jimmy Saville.
So what are you saying, by association…
…the Conservatives are all pedophiles and Nazi sympathisers?
By: waco - 18th October 2015 at 21:57
Operation Journeyman was a Royal Navy operation in which a naval taskforce was sent to the Falkland Islands in November 1977 to prevent an Argentine invasion.
The operation was ordered by James Callaghan after fifty Argentine “scientists” landed on Southern Thule, prompting fears of an Argentine invasion of the Falklands. The Argentinians set up a military base on Thule. It is likely that the prompt action prevented a more serious attack. The force planned under heavy security was led by the nuclear submarine Dreadnought and also consisted of two frigates, Alacrity and Phoebe, and the auxiliaries Resource and Olwen as support vessels. The Argentines rapidly became aware of the taskforce’s presence, but their forces remained on Thule and Callaghan decided against the use of force to evict them.
The foreign secretary at the time David Owen later claimed that if Margaret Thatcher’s government had taken similarly quick action five years later, the Argentinians would not have invaded in 1982 leading to the Falklands War.
errrrr FACT
By: waco - 18th October 2015 at 21:55
CD
On 25 February 1982, after several months of negotiations, the Australian government announced that it had agreed to buy Invincible for £175 million as a replacement, under the name HMAS Australia, for the Royal Australian Navy’s HMAS Melbourne. The sale was confirmed by the Ministry of Defence.
FACT
The Ministry of Defence’s 1981 Defence White Paper proposed naval cuts including decommissioning Endurance, which was scheduled for 15 April 1982
Endurance* ’s withdrawal from Antarctic patrol without replacement was perceived in Britain as having encouraged the Argentinian invasion. The subsequent Franks Report acknowledged it as a factor .
FACT
Hermes was due to be decommissioned in 1982 after a 1981 defence review (that would have made the Royal Navy considerably smaller) by the British government,
FACT
Come on CD…try reading a couple of half decent books on the subject !
By: Creaking Door - 18th October 2015 at 21:52
Declan MacManus is the real name of Elvis Costello. I suggest you listen to ‘Shipbuilding’…
I know the track well, know it is about the Falklands and I’m quite a fan of ‘Declan MacManus’ (but not so much of one that I know his real name)…
…but I wonder what he would have done when faced with a military dictatorship attacking the Falklands?
By: Creaking Door - 18th October 2015 at 21:45
The simple fact is, had she not sold off our carriers to the Australians, paid off Endurance and Hermes the Argentines would never have attacked the Falklands…
Utter crap! In your desperation to lay the whole blame for the Falklands conflict on Thatcher (and therefore the United Kingdom!) you have strayed very far from the ‘simple facts’!
HMS Endurance had not been paid-off and took a full and active part in the conflict, particularly in the recovery of South Georgia; Wasp helicopters from HMS Endurance crippled the Argentine submarine Santa Fe, an act that was a catalyst in the subsequent, brilliant and bloodless, recapture of South Georgia. Nor had HMS Hermes been paid-off or HMS Invincible been sold.
Isn’t it rather hard to attribute the ’cause’ of the Falklands conflict to the ‘fact’ that these ships had been paid-off or sold when, in fact, they hadn’t been paid-off or sold?
Yes, the Conservative Defence Secretary, John Nott, had been planning large defence cuts, and many of these cuts would have fallen on the Royal Navy and the Fleet Air Arm in particular, and had the Argentine Junta attacked the Falklands after these cuts had been made then you would perhaps have a case, but those are not the facts, are they.
In fact the Falklands conflict was caused by the increasingly desperate position that the Argentine military Junta found itself in in March 1982: economy in tatters, hyperinflation, national strikes, food shortages, widespread public disorder, anti-government protests and rioting in the capital. The Junta was forced, forced, into the only action that they knew would unite the country behind them and give them some breathing-space: the invasion of the Falklands! They had already planned such an operation, to coincide with HMS Endurance being back in the United Kingdom for her winter refit (so it wouldn’t have mattered a damn if she had been paid-off or not), but were forced to bring the operation forward by several months, irrespective of the strength of the Royal Navy, by the worsening situation in Argentina.
That being the case it is hard to argue that the cuts that hadn’t happened caused the conflict!
And I’ve still to hear you lay any blame at the feet of the Argentine Junta!
Sign In
October 5, 2015 at 5:19 am