Cyprus Has…

Re 106

Charlie,

Your comment at above pays lip service to semantics. Whether the Cyprus Govt. have printing presses capable of printing money situated on the island, I have no idea. That is not the subject of my scribblings.

I have no doubt that the ECB who will give the authority for QE possess not only the printing capacity but will also require the assent of the Cyprus Govt. The permissory links are, as I’ve previously mentioned, the ECB, the IMF and the Cyprus Govt.

If the Cyprus Govt. drags its heels – for whatever reasons – then it is possible the other two will simply go ahead. Although I didn’t follow the Greek debacle in any detail, the Cyprus situation is the same but smaller.

Good things come to those who wait 🙂

Also bad things 😉
In my working life I have seen many changes…unfortunately not many changes have been for the good :rolleyes:

I find the benefits system in the UK astonishing and wonder how such a colossal sponging culture could have been allowed to develop; but it isn’t anything to do with the EU, it’s the UK government and population that have nutured that beast.

Hey SNAFU – something we agree on 😀
Our benefit system is absolutely astounding…it started off with the best of intentions along with the NHS.
But it has all lost its way over the years and that is something to blame Labour for…gradually they stopped representing the working man and worked towards representing the shirking man :rolleyes:….you can imagine how pleased I am to financially support the workshy and non working migrants.
And before any lefties kick off…I do not mind paying for those genuinely in need of help 😉

Very good!! But In fear you will have to wait a very, very, very, very long time…….;), assuming that is what you truly desire.

Good things come to those who wait 🙂

the EU is not the finished article.

Indeed not and it won’t be until it is a federal state. But somehow I don’t see that aspiration being fulfilled in my lifetime, my son’s or my grandson’s.:)

johnny green says EU approximates North Korea.

johnny, What size tin foil hat would one like?

Your favourite money grabbing politico is an elected member of the European Parliament.

I must say that fact alone does provide some food for thought as to his and your motives.

Selfish, grab as much for yourself and screw everybody else would seem to sum them up nicely.

I find the benefits system in the UK astonishing and wonder how such a colossal sponging culture could have been allowed to develop; but it isn’t anything to do with the EU, it’s the UK government and population that have nutured that beast.
You choose to ignore the simple fact that most issues begin at home and blame the EU for all your percived ills.

For my part i have stated before and will happily state again that the EU is not the finished article.
The small minded englander attitiude portrayed on these pages and by the likes of farage clearly illustrate why the UK has fallen so far. As you yourself put it in a rant re socialism, a complete lack of ambition or personal responsibility, which means the UK is indeed sadly slipping away to be a small group of insignificant islands off the coast of Europe. As a Brit i find that terrible and it is attitudes such as yours which will make it so.
Just my opinion. 🙂

When I wrote waffle I agree with you – many of us are more than aware of what the EU is and how it works. But in this specific case you have not answered the specific question, because you cannot.

Whatever else or however else the EU in its devious way seeks to save Cyprus it will not be by Cyprus printing money. It can’t. End of story. And that’s what you and I are discussing in our exchanges.

Re 104

It isn’t EU waffle. That which I’ve described, is the way that the EU is run – as simple as that. I have answered you as best I know how. If you are unable to accept that or, have your own ‘take’, I uinderstand.

There isn’t any other answer to the current Cyprus problem that I can think of. Perhaps you have another slant ?

The euro is caught ‘between a rock and a hard place’. If the Cyprus govt. endorses QE, it will create a demand from Heaven alone knows how many other member countries with monumental budget deficits for the same treatment. What will that do for the credibility of the euro?

A partial answer would be for existing euro bond holders to invest in more bonds ! That might restore a short term confidence in the euro but, will do nothing to remedy the underlying problem. That approach is ok if you don’t mind chucking good money after bad.

We know all about that EU waffle, John, but it totally fails to answer my question.

EU or no EU it is simply impossible with a common currency for any individual component of that currency to operate autonomously. Quite apart from the fact that there is no means to do it. Cyprus’ central bank is shared with the other Eurozone members and that bank is where the decision would be made and whatever the decision it would be the same for every member.

Re 102

It’s been written before but, I’ll repeat it here. Nothing and no one will be allowed by the EU to derail the euro, and therefore the inevitable progress towards federalism. It is all part of a wider picture. If the EU needs to rewrite or re-interpret some of the rules then, it will do just that.

If recalcitrant members need to be ‘leant on’ then that is what will happen. When a member country takes a national vote on a matter of some relevance to the EU and which happens to be not the result that the EU wants, then the recalcitrant member country is invited to take another look at the problem and vote again – and if necessary again until the ‘right’ result is achieved.

Charlie, you know this to be true because it has happened before your very eyes. With Cyprus, as far as the EU is concerned, the ‘end justifies the means’.

I hope this solves your puzzlement. You can see now that ‘it can be done’ provided we accept that the EU is the most profoundly anti democratic almost totalitarian organisation outside North Korea.

John – I am unclear why you persist in repeating something that cannot be done. Unless you care to explain how a country without a central bank and utilising a common currency with 16 other countries can take a unilateral decision to “print money”.

Re 99

No Charlie. Printing money is the only option. There is no other. There is no choice that I can think of – can you?.

No one in their right mind would increase their Bond holdings at a time when their current holdings are looking increasingly worthless !

It is the ECB that, at the behest of the IMF and the agreement of the Cyprus Govt. that will actually print the cash should they choose to go that route.

In the unlikely event, that the rest of the Eurozone decide collectively to bail out Cyprus – more or less as a ‘window dressing’ exercise to demonstrate unanimity, where, apart from Germany, who, on this occasion will not put their hand in their pocket, will the money come from ? Looks like the printing presses will be very hot.

[Sorry, I had to substitute-out ‘engineering’ in your post – I’m an engineer! :)]

🙂 No problem at all.

“Sorry, John, they can’t. If they could it would make a mockery of any single currency. “

That is actually what I wrote and I reiterate – Cyprus cannot “print money” in isolation. It does not have a central bank.

Re 85

“….make a mockery of the single currency…”

Exactly. Couldn’t have put it better myself. Printing money is all that’s left. There’s no other option. The Chinese who are the holders of the biggest share of Euro bonds now, rapidly becoming worthless, are quite probably demanding nothing less.

Those investors holding Euro bonds have to hope that in the days ahead, confidence in the Euro is maintained. Bit of a forlorn hope I think.

money

The RAF flew a cargo plane to Cyprus today with 1 million in euros on board to help brits who can’t get cash from banks.

One ‘take’ on the Russian aspect http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21831943 😉

Interesting. If some of the Russian investors in Cyprus are trying to avoid the attention of the Russian government I wonder why the Russian government is so keen that they should not pay the levy? If they have to pay the levy maybe more of these Russian investors will be forced to keep their money where the Russian government can have better access to it?

We were all quite happy to accept the good times when credit was easy, times since shown to be based on deeply flawed [banking and government], thus unfortunately we should be happy to accept the bad times as well.

If we had had the gumption to understand and demand proper regulation of institutions the times would not have been as good but conversely not be as bad.

There is a lot of truth in what you say.

The average Cypriot is very much better-off because of the money made by the, comparatively large, Cypriot banking sector over the years but the success of that banking sector was based on some risks by the banks and unfortunately those risks have backfired somewhat. I’d suggest that the (up to 15%) levy is taking-away much less than the risky banking added over the years but the population will never see it that way.

In a similar way the foreign investors were taking advantage of the interest rates and taxes that the Cypriot banks offered. Nobody forced them to be there; they were there because it was to their advantage and they couldn’t get a better deal elsewhere. They may get hit by a one-off levy now but how much tax have they avoided, and how much interest have they earned, before this levy?

In life, you very seldom get a good ‘deal’ without risks…

…and a risk is just that, a risk…..you never get ‘cannot lose’ risks! 😉

[Sorry, I had to substitute-out ‘engineering’ in your post – I’m an engineer! :)]

One ‘take’ on the Russian aspect http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21831943 😉