Could anyone tell me how long, in general, RAF aircraft carried the invasion stripes after D-Day for. I’ve always assumed they were left on until the end of the war but after looking at a few photos believe this may not have been the case.
TIA
Steve
By: Aerodynamik - 10th January 2012 at 08:47
Thanks for the info guys.
Steve
By: Aerodynamik - 10th January 2012 at 08:47
Thanks for the info guys.
Steve
By: Arabella-Cox - 5th January 2012 at 19:37
Interesting… reading Antoni’s post kind of makes some sense to the variations in invasion stripes on Horsa gliders I’ve been looking into just before Xmas.
For operations on the 6th June 1944 gliders had full fuselage and upper/lower wing stripes.
By 18th September 1944 and Op. Market the majority have just the lower wing and fuselage stripes and in some cases it’s been crudely removed often leaving the black stripes but deleting the white.
Come 24th March 1945 and Op. Varsity the gliders appear to have lost all stripes or have had them deleted as best as possible.
I’d be interesting is seeing copies of any notes/orders/references to the official dates when such orders were made, especially if it relates to gliders/transports.
By: Arabella-Cox - 5th January 2012 at 19:37
Interesting… reading Antoni’s post kind of makes some sense to the variations in invasion stripes on Horsa gliders I’ve been looking into just before Xmas.
For operations on the 6th June 1944 gliders had full fuselage and upper/lower wing stripes.
By 18th September 1944 and Op. Market the majority have just the lower wing and fuselage stripes and in some cases it’s been crudely removed often leaving the black stripes but deleting the white.
Come 24th March 1945 and Op. Varsity the gliders appear to have lost all stripes or have had them deleted as best as possible.
I’d be interesting is seeing copies of any notes/orders/references to the official dates when such orders were made, especially if it relates to gliders/transports.
By: antoni - 5th January 2012 at 15:50
Removal was gradual and varied. Generally speaking photographs show squadrons assigned to ADGB removed them quite quickly and were completely gone by Aug 1944 while 2nd TAF kept them, in partial form until the very end of 1944 when they were finally ordered to be removed entirely. In some cases they made a reappearance. For example photographs of 306 Squadron’s Mustangs take in June 1944 show the stripes very crudely applied but in photographs taken in August the stripes were gone without a trace remaining. However, in October/November their Mustangs sport rather neat partial stripes on the underside of the fuselage and wings. 306 Squadron was assigned to Operation Market Garden and it is thought the stripes were reapplied for that operation.
Not everyone was happy with the invasion stripes. Tactical reconnaissance Mustang squadrons and Auster AOP squadrons felt they badly compromised their camouflage. Austers were the first to remove the stripes from their upper surfaces but exactly when remains obscure. An HQ AEAF order dated 6th July gave permission for some aircraft to carry stripes only on their under surfaces. The earliest dateable photograph showing absence of upper surface stripes shows AOC 84 Group’s Spitfire IX, L*OB, MK910 on 4th July 1944. From this time the upper surface markings begin to disappear from the upper wings and fuselage, retreating down the sides of the latter in stages until they remain on only the underside.
The next step in the removal of the stripes came on 19th August 1944 with Amendment 3 to the original SHAEF memorandum. This stated that the wing stripes should be removed during the period 25th August to 10th September 1944 with some leeway being given if this should prove to be difficult.
Orders to remove them entirely came with the issue of the suspension of SHAEF Operational Memorandum No 23, issued 6th December and to come into effect 31st December 1944. This stated that the distinctive marking would be removed from all aircraft, except PR Mosquitoes and Spitfires of 34 Wing (which had been experiencing misidentification problems and so reinstated full markings) where this could be achieved without damaging the aircraft and taking into account the time and materials available.
At this time the problem of 2nd TAF coming under attack by friendly aircraft was worsening. On 6th December the Air Ministry made a proposal, compensate for the loss of the distinctive markings, to increase the visibility of upper wing roundels in all Commands by changing tem from National Making I to National Marking II. This would add a narrow white ring between the th red and blue. At HQ 2nd TAF, AM Coningham thought that the yellow ring of the fuselage roundel should be widened. By 10th December 2nd TAF now wanted a yellow ring to be added to all roundels. 2nd TAF went on to act unilaterally and on 2nd January 1945 issued instructions to take effect on the following day to remove Sky bands and spinners on fighter aircraft (thought to have been a response to Operation Bodenplatte) and all roundels to be National Marking type III, i.e., with a yellow outer ring. This brought a quick response from the Air Ministry asking them to comply with instructions and submit a case for change if required. There then followed a sort of pantomime between the Air Ministry wanting 2nd TAF to comply with its instructions, pointing out that it had changed National Markings I to National Markings II to compensate for the loss of the distinctive markings, and 2nd TAF continuing to go its own way.
By: antoni - 5th January 2012 at 15:50
Removal was gradual and varied. Generally speaking photographs show squadrons assigned to ADGB removed them quite quickly and were completely gone by Aug 1944 while 2nd TAF kept them, in partial form until the very end of 1944 when they were finally ordered to be removed entirely. In some cases they made a reappearance. For example photographs of 306 Squadron’s Mustangs take in June 1944 show the stripes very crudely applied but in photographs taken in August the stripes were gone without a trace remaining. However, in October/November their Mustangs sport rather neat partial stripes on the underside of the fuselage and wings. 306 Squadron was assigned to Operation Market Garden and it is thought the stripes were reapplied for that operation.
Not everyone was happy with the invasion stripes. Tactical reconnaissance Mustang squadrons and Auster AOP squadrons felt they badly compromised their camouflage. Austers were the first to remove the stripes from their upper surfaces but exactly when remains obscure. An HQ AEAF order dated 6th July gave permission for some aircraft to carry stripes only on their under surfaces. The earliest dateable photograph showing absence of upper surface stripes shows AOC 84 Group’s Spitfire IX, L*OB, MK910 on 4th July 1944. From this time the upper surface markings begin to disappear from the upper wings and fuselage, retreating down the sides of the latter in stages until they remain on only the underside.
The next step in the removal of the stripes came on 19th August 1944 with Amendment 3 to the original SHAEF memorandum. This stated that the wing stripes should be removed during the period 25th August to 10th September 1944 with some leeway being given if this should prove to be difficult.
Orders to remove them entirely came with the issue of the suspension of SHAEF Operational Memorandum No 23, issued 6th December and to come into effect 31st December 1944. This stated that the distinctive marking would be removed from all aircraft, except PR Mosquitoes and Spitfires of 34 Wing (which had been experiencing misidentification problems and so reinstated full markings) where this could be achieved without damaging the aircraft and taking into account the time and materials available.
At this time the problem of 2nd TAF coming under attack by friendly aircraft was worsening. On 6th December the Air Ministry made a proposal, compensate for the loss of the distinctive markings, to increase the visibility of upper wing roundels in all Commands by changing tem from National Making I to National Marking II. This would add a narrow white ring between the th red and blue. At HQ 2nd TAF, AM Coningham thought that the yellow ring of the fuselage roundel should be widened. By 10th December 2nd TAF now wanted a yellow ring to be added to all roundels. 2nd TAF went on to act unilaterally and on 2nd January 1945 issued instructions to take effect on the following day to remove Sky bands and spinners on fighter aircraft (thought to have been a response to Operation Bodenplatte) and all roundels to be National Marking type III, i.e., with a yellow outer ring. This brought a quick response from the Air Ministry asking them to comply with instructions and submit a case for change if required. There then followed a sort of pantomime between the Air Ministry wanting 2nd TAF to comply with its instructions, pointing out that it had changed National Markings I to National Markings II to compensate for the loss of the distinctive markings, and 2nd TAF continuing to go its own way.
By: Edgar Brooks - 5th January 2012 at 15:34
25-8-44 an order, to remove wing, but retain fuselage, markings, was issued, with 25-8 to 10-9 being allowed for it to happen, though there was a warning that some might still be seen after that date, due to possible difficulty in removing them from fabric.
6-12-44 an order was issued that all markings should be removed from 31-12-44.
Edgar
By: Edgar Brooks - 5th January 2012 at 15:34
25-8-44 an order, to remove wing, but retain fuselage, markings, was issued, with 25-8 to 10-9 being allowed for it to happen, though there was a warning that some might still be seen after that date, due to possible difficulty in removing them from fabric.
6-12-44 an order was issued that all markings should be removed from 31-12-44.
Edgar
Sign In
January 5, 2012 at 11:53 am