I have just watched this DVD, and it’s well worth watching. I just find it hard to believe, that from drawing board to it’s first trip over enemy terratory (Photo Recon) was only 21 months. Anyone know how long it would take from scratch today?.
I have often wondered if, taking the heat seeking air to air missiles off a modern Jet fighter, how would the best WW11 fighter fare in a dog fight?.
ie, jet against prop.
Lincoln .7
By: Lincoln 7 - 10th March 2011 at 19:08
There were two ‘dogfights’ between Sea Harrier jets and turbo-props during the Falklands war.
In one engagement (three Sea Harrier against two Pucara) one Sea Harrier, with judicious use of flaps and eventually nozzles, managed to slow down enough to shoot-down one Pucara that was flying at very low level.
In another engagement (two Sea Harrier against three T-34 Turbo-Mentor) the Turbo-Mentors dropped their weapons and sought safety in cloud but one Sea Harrier managed (after a near mid-air collision) to hit one Turbo-Mentor with a 30mm cannon round through the (unoccupied) rear canopy. The Turbo-Mentor survived to land safely.
Missiles, although carried by the Sea Harriers, were not used in either case as, I think, it was not seen as ‘sporting’ to do so!
Many thanks for your input Warren, much appreciated.
Lincoln .7
By: PeterVerney - 9th March 2011 at 13:49
For what it is worth here is my limited experience of jet v piston, taken again from the article I did for mossie.org
“There were various exercises during which we would simulate day bombers so that the four Vampire squadrons based at Deversoir could have a go at us. Joe would make me kneel on my seat and try and assess when the Vampires were reaching firing distance and call the break. With a little flap we could easily outturn them but with their superior speed I expect we were all held in their sights long enough for a kill at some time.”
By: QldSpitty - 9th March 2011 at 13:24
Oh Yeah?, But was it as good as the Mossy
As a fighter,hell no..As a ground attack,one of the worlds best.
By: Creaking Door - 9th March 2011 at 13:16
…taking the heat seeking air to air missiles off a modern Jet fighter, how would the best WW11 fighter fare in a dog fight?
There were two ‘dogfights’ between Sea Harrier jets and turbo-props during the Falklands war.
In one engagement (three Sea Harrier against two Pucara) one Sea Harrier, with judicious use of flaps and eventually nozzles, managed to slow down enough to shoot-down one Pucara that was flying at very low level.
In another engagement (two Sea Harrier against three T-34 Turbo-Mentor) the Turbo-Mentors dropped their weapons and sought safety in cloud but one Sea Harrier managed (after a near mid-air collision) to hit one Turbo-Mentor with a 30mm cannon round through the (unoccupied) rear canopy. The Turbo-Mentor survived to land safely.
Missiles, although carried by the Sea Harriers, were not used in either case as, I think, it was not seen as ‘sporting’ to do so!
By: Lincoln 7 - 9th March 2011 at 10:48
Oh Yeah?, But was it as good as the Mossy, Will drop in first week in April if thats O.K.:diablo:
Lincoln .7
By: QldSpitty - 8th March 2011 at 23:27
Amatures… CAC Boomerang.From initial concept to first flight,16 weeks 🙂
By: Lincoln 7 - 8th March 2011 at 23:19
This thread is a candidate for Historic Aviation, if ever I saw one.
Well, I did wonder myself actualy, as I quoted “Modern jet”,ie present day, and “historic WW11 piston prop” aircraft.
Lincoln .7
By: Firebex - 8th March 2011 at 22:53
The Kraguj went up against US F16’s in the Jugoslavian conflict and escaped everytime down in amongst the trees.As Moggy says it depends on the circumstances and if the prop is at anything like a reasonable height above ground the Jet will get it everytime.The only thing that could get them was helicopter gunships like the Apache.
By: Grey Area - 8th March 2011 at 22:46
This thread is a candidate for Historic Aviation, if ever I saw one.
By: Moggy C - 8th March 2011 at 22:14
No, not on DVD. There was some research done, possibly around the time of the Korean War where we sent guys in aircraft with props to combat the Migs.
I have tried it myself in flight sims and it never fails. In a powerful jet, if you attack from below in the climb, whether you miss, or hit, there is nothing the prop aircraft can do to harm you.
Moggy
By: Lincoln 7 - 8th March 2011 at 21:13
Thanks Moggy. Thats cleared up a question I have been asking myself for a long time. I take it you have seen this DVD?,
Lincoln .7
By: Moggy C - 8th March 2011 at 19:47
The jet v prop combat has been thoroughly investigated.
The jet wins every time as long as they attack in the climb (from below)
At the bottom end of the performance envelope though very light props (Bird Dogs, L4 etc) can often escape using terrain hugging and very low speed manoeuvring. But to the point of a draw – never a win.
Moggy
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March 8, 2011 at 5:38 pm