Dambusters Declassified – BBC2, 17th Oct 8PM.

When I was at secondary school in the ’60s the term ‘bint’ was quite common and due to the alliterative nature of the word it was normally used in a more perjorative manner. This became a real issue for one girl in my form whose surname was Bint. She was so upset by it all that in the end she changed her name by deed poll.

Rod

Not Cynthia Deedpoll of class 4B?

It’s rather like tuning-in to watch David Dimbleby present Question Time, only to find some chimp sat on his lap without any explanation.

I think that might have been John Prescott.

Still doesn’t explain the formation flying – sorry

Moggy

When I was at secondary school in the ’60s the term ‘bint’ was quite common and due to the alliterative nature of the word it was normally used in a more perjorative manner. This became a real issue for one girl in my form whose surname was Bint. She was so upset by it all that in the end she changed her name by deed poll.

With regard to the program, I quite enjoyed it even though there wasn’t much new stuff on display. I really couldn’t see the point of the close formation flying either though. Unnecessarily dangerous in my view.

One thing that struck me was that in the still shots of the breached dam there were a couple of barrage balloons in the background. Were these present during the attack? Or a later stable door closure method. I don’t recall them being mentioned in accounts of the attacks.

If they were there previously, surely it indicates that the Germans had appreciated the danger of a possible attack.

Rod

The last time i heard the term ‘Bint’ was on monday, when i was working for an ex far east Mossie navigator! He was talking about the american’s chasing after local Bints in Calcuta. He and his pilot had gone to play golf in Calcuta. They had to use second clubs, the american’s had unused new clubs but never played golf.

Dave

Bazv, you’re quite right – the last time I too can recall “bint” being used was by John Cleese in Fawlty Towers!

..there were no real revelations to get exited about… some (sometimes too close) formation work

I agree there too. As ever it was typical television fodder. A “celebrity” to utter a few inappropriate “oohs” and “ahhs” or in this case, the equally useless “I can’t believe I’m doing this” to which one felt obliged to utter “neither can I.” What was shown was interesting certainly, but you did finish the programme with a vague feeling of under-nourishment. I see no reason to hitch a ride on PA474 if one cannot offer anything more than a few emotive/toe-curling (delete as appropriate) words which could have been issued from the ground. A wasted opportunity I fear.

As for the close formation flying, has anyone got any idea what the purpose of that was? I mean really, why? It’s rather like tuning-in to watch David Dimbleby present Question Time, only to find some chimp sat on his lap without any explanation.

Flygirl,
Why ? in my youth in the sixties we did not have much but we had a certain amount of stability in life ,achievable goals be it education,career,finances. today it is too opressive,too P.C. and anything aeronautical is fast disappearing just look at the defence cuts today !

Agree very scary! Tough Times, lets hope we can beat them.

Flygirl,
Why ? in my youth in the sixties we did not have much but we had a certain amount of stability in life ,achievable goals be it education,career,finances. today it is too opressive,too P.C. and anything aeronautical is fast disappearing just look at the defence cuts today !

= Postmodernist free-for-all.

Flygirl,
Why ? in my youth in the sixties we did not have much but we had a certain amount of stability in life ,achievable goals be it education,career,finances. today it is too opressive,too P.C. and anything aeronautical is fast disappearing just look at the defence cuts today !

Regarding the terms “bint” and “popsy”, both service slang.
Bint someone correctly put is Arabic for daughter, it can also mean a female camel, so take your pick.

As regards popsy, my wife, then girlfriend was not amused when my pilot introduced her as “Pete’s popsy”, we often laugh about it now.

Why ?

Because it’s a Postmodernist free-for-all.

Flygirl,

Yes the current times ….. scares the hell out of me !

Why ?

Thoroughly enjoyed the programme, flying sequences and the laid back presentation by Martin Shaw.

One thing that never seems to be mentioned in the extensive coverage of the raid is the vast differences in success and losses between the different waves of the attack. Off the top of my head it seems that the dam breeches were mainly down to the first wave of the attack and the majority of the losses were down to the back-up waves; losses that were added for very little, if any, gain.

Does this highlight differences in proficiency of the various waves, bad planning over some of the targets (and weapons used on unsuitable targets) or was it just a case of luck (or bad luck) on the night?

Before the internet existed, there were some excellent documentaries on TV. One expert questioned the choice of the Sorpe for the same bomb because of its earthen banked construction could absorb the explosive force.

Also the Lister and Schwelme dams rarely get a mention.

I hope one of the digital channels gets access to these documentaries, some included interviews with Barnes Wallis, though I remember the article about him in the Radio Times much clearer.

Regarding your second point, that had always been my assumption. Regarding your first point – as ever Partridge ( one of my bibles ) is precise. And your excellent comments about slang as a form of speech are irrefutable.

Partridge – quite a long entry

‘Bint’: A girl, or woman; a prostitute – in which role the female was often called saida [sah-eeda] bint, lit. ‘a “good day!” girl’: among soldiers in Egypt: late C.19-20 but esp and since W.W.I; ob by 1960. Direct ex Arabic. 2. Hence, the bint, the man playing ‘a female part in a Divisional Concert Party or Troop’: military: 1916-18. – one’s girl friend, e.g. lush bint, a very attractive girl: since Ca 1920, but esp. in W.W.II and after, among servicemen. An elevation into generalisation of sense 1. Nevertheless, even in W.W.II and current (1979) usage it was and is pejorative. In Arabic bint has no literal meaning other than ‘daughter’.

Regarding some of the other remarks, slang is, by definition, informal, mutable, changing over time (as noted) and by region and group and rarely formally defined. One person’s insulting term is another’s acceptable nickname. Most people don’t realise that ‘Punk’ originally meant prostitute, for instance. One only needs to note the differing acceptability across each side of the Atlantic currently of ‘fanny’, bum’, and ‘Randy’ for instance.

I don’t see any serious suggestion that ‘Popsie’ has any derogatory (rather than period appropriate patronisation) except a perhaps less-precise comparison definition offered earlier – one of the dangers of trying to explain slang.

More on topic

Does this highlight differences in proficiency of the various waves, bad planning over some of the targets (and weapons used on unsuitable targets) or was it just a case of luck (or bad luck) on the night?

I’d always assumed it was a factor of alerted defences, but my knowledge isn’t in depth enough to see if that’s tenable.

Regards,

ISTR One of John Cleeses one liners on Fawlty Towers involved something like – ‘You Cloth Eared Bint’ 😀

Popsie isn’t derogatory but bint certainly is! 😀

Bint is now but was not then – if you read my earlier post. The changing use of words………..who would now admit to having a gay time, unless they were.:confused:

The usage and meanings of words is ever changing much to the confusuion of some. And should you find a copy of the book I mentioned you will be surprised at what was acceptable slang then and wouldn’t be now and vice versa.

The Billy Cotton version was far and away my favourite because it had some of the soundtrack – “Hello P for Popsie, hello P for Popsie, start your attack now” – was it actually from the film soundtrack or something recorded in a BBC studio?

I too had the Billy Cotton version – although I thought I’d ordered a proper orchestral version of the theme. The voiceover and ‘explosions’ were quite definitely not from the film! As you might gather, I didn’t like the BC version!

One thing that never seems to be mentioned in the extensive coverage of the raid is the vast differences in success and losses between the different waves of the attack. Off the top of my head it seems that the dam breeches were mainly down to the first wave of the attack and the majority of the losses were down to the back-up waves; losses that were added for very little, if any, gain.

Does this highlight differences in proficiency of the various waves, bad planning over some of the targets (and weapons used on unsuitable targets) or was it just a case of luck (or bad luck) on the night?

I watched the film last night and am watching the Martin Shaw prog re run now, both exellent, an interesting take on the raid and I’ve learnt some new things about it.